Ruger Blackhawk Throats

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ThomasT

ThomasT

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I decided I would measure the throats on my 44 mag Blackhawk and found that they all measure a consistent .433 instead of.429-.430 like I was expecting.

I have owned this gun for many years but probably don’t have a hundred fifty rounds down the bore. And most of those were lead bullets. My lead bullets are a slip fit in the chambers but Hornady jacketed bullets that measure.430 just fall right through.

Does this sound like a problem Ruger would address or would I be wasting my time since I have owned the gun so long? I bought it from the original owner in unfired condition.
 
I don't think so. I think they would say it is in spec. Rugers are often around .432, which is closer to the original specs for the cartridge IIRC. Can work really well with cast or coated bullets fit to your gun.
 
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I doubt a .434" diameter bullet is going to fit in a .44 case, not without the case bulging.

OP, if you want to shoot cheap and not deal with leading, use Berry's bullets. The plating is very thick, so you can crank them up to full power .44 Mag or use them in a lighter load.

I'm frankly getting sick of Ruger and their big throats.
 
I had this problem with a Redhawk. Another reason among many I got turned off of all things 44 caliber.

I have heard there are similar problems amongst all their revolvers but seem to be more common in 44 cal.

A fellow I know had this problem in a 44 special Ruger and has sent it back twice with no real solutions on their end.
 
ThomasT said:
I have owned this gun for many years but probably don’t have a hundred fifty rounds down the bore. And most of those were lead bullets.
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And the most important piece of data is. . . missing. How did those 150 rounds shoot.

ThomasT said:
My lead bullets are a slip fit in the chambers but Hornady jacketed bullets that measure.430 just fall right through.
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Hopefully the cast bullets slip fit through the throats, which is exactly what you want. Bullet fit to chamber is meaningless.

ThomasT said:
Does this sound like a problem Ruger would address. . .
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I'm not able to identify a problem from the information you provided. You have a Ruger with a cylinder that sounds like it precisely fits your cast bullets; that's a problem you don't have.

Provided the barrel isn't strangled under the receiver threads it should shoot cast fine, better after a bit of fire lapping in my experience.

As for jacketed bullets falling through the throats, that's common to all of my revolvers once they've been honed for cast. It has never presented an accuracy problem.
 
Those are perfectly sized if you ask me. If your bore diameter is .430, you want your Bullets sized to .431-.432 so you want your cylinder throats to be .433 to allow the bullet to pass though without being swaged down before it enters the barrel. I believe the problems occur when your throats are smaller than your bore or inconsistent in size. My 2 blackhawks came from then factory with properly sized throats. I have heard that the .45 blackhawks can be inconsistent.
In my opinion there is no problem with your gun.
 
TTv2 said:
I doubt a .434" diameter bullet is going to fit in a .44 case, not without the case bulging.

OP, if you want to shoot cheap and not deal with leading, use Berry's bullets. The plating is very thick, so you can crank them up to full power .44 Mag or use them in a lighter load.

I'm frankly getting sick of Ruger and their big throats.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't go larger than the throats. I'd prob try .432. And we still don't know if there are even leading or accuracy problems with .430s or .429 jackets.

The good news is that one could reload the same cast rounds for the BH and a .44 lever and expect good results in both.
 
OK thanks for the replies. The gun shoots good with the lead bullets I have used in it. Those were all around .431 to .432 in diameter. I haven't shot it on paper just shot across my buds pond at rocks on the far bank about 45 yards away. Hitting the rocks or hitting close to them off hand is the way I have shot it. Putting a bullet in a deer's chest at that range from a field position would be easy. And no they didn't lead the bore.

I have some Berry's bullets and they measure a very tight .429 and I haven't tried them. The XTPs are .430 and I think I have shot some but don't remember how they shot. I mainly shoot those in the Marlin lever action. I measured the throats with calipers.

I have a new Lee 240gr TLSWC mold I hope to try out soon. I will see what the "as cast" size is and if I am lucky they will drop in the .432 size range. I shoot more lead than jacketed bullets anyway. Those shot to around 900-1100fps would be fine with me. And the .432 sized lead bullets I have loaded now did not bulge the cases or make the rounds oversized so they would not chamber in the Ruger or the Marlin. And the Marlin I have now is the newer version with Ballard Rifling that should shoot lead better than the older Marlin I did have.

So maybe I have over thought this. You guys have gave me a new way of looking at the throat sizes on the gun. At least one thing about them they were all the same size and not random sizes like some have reported.

And I almost forgot. I have some Mag Tech 240gr Jacketed bullets I bought from Midway many years ago that shot really well in the Micro-Groove barrel of my old Marlin because those measure .431. I cannot remember if I have shot any out of the Ruger but they didn't quite drop through the cylinder without a little push. So those may be the best choice if I want to shoot jacketed through the Super Blackhawk.

So I hope I have addressed all the points you all pointed out. If not ask me again and I will answer. But I think I am going to just leave the gun alone and maybe just get out and shoot the dern thing.
 
.433 throats in a 44 is near perfect. Ought to shoot lead or jacketed great. A lot of people don’t understand shooting lead in revolvers. The throats need to be at least .0005 bigger than bullet diameter but .001 is better. Barrel groove diameter needs to be .001 smaller than bullet diameter. 433 throats, 432 bullet and a 431 bore is about good as it gets. All the cylinder throat does is get the bullet lined up with the forcing cone
 
no.5enfield said:
I'm glad I saw this thread. I'm waiting on a .44spl Bisley and was curious about what to look for.
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A few years ago I had a model 629 that had .429 throats and the EDM rifling. It did not shoot lead bullets well at all. But it did OK with jacketed bullets. I should have had the throats opened to around .431 and kept the gun but I sold it.

Me and a bud bought two Ruger SP-101s in 32 mag when they first came out and neither one shot lead bullets worth a hoot. Mine had .309 and my buds had .310 throats. I bought a .3125 reamer and opened them up and that made a big difference in both lead and jacketed bullets since they both had .312 bores.

My S&W models 30 and 31 have .313 bores and .314 throats and I use .314 cast bullets in all three of those guns in 32 long. My two Ruger Single Sixes in 32 mag have .313 throats and .312 bores and shoot my lead bullets sized .312 very well.

So throats on guns can be all over the place. I was surprised my BH had .433 throats but after reading some of the reasoning of the other posters it sounds like I have a perfect gun that just needs to be used a lot more. I have had one of the Lee TL SWC molds in 240gr 44 caliber before and the bullets I cast from it shot extremely well in the old blued model 29 I truly wish I had never ever sold. I would load 5gs of Bullseye in a 44 mag case with one of those bullets and at 25 yards it would shoot a ragged hole. It was just a big pop gun load but it was fun. I paid $200 for that gun and sold it for 275 and really thought I had done something. I did. Something stupid.
 
I have had several revolvers with excessively tight throats, 2 in .44 mag and all of them in .45 Colt. The .44’s were a DW 744 and S&W 629 Mtn. gun. Both shot much better after I reamed the throats with a .431” reamer. The .45’s required a .4525” reamer, and it worked well for then, to.
 
If I have to have a revolver with incorrectly sized throats I'd prefer they be tight. Tight throats are an easy and inexpensive fix but over sized throats are not. Most of the revolvers I've run into are just a tad tight. These are mostly 80's and later. They are often also a bit irregular chamber-to-chamber so I tend to ream them regardless even if it's just to make them consistent.

The worst I've seen are a late 60's model S&W 14 that thought it was a 9mm. The throats were all in the .355-.356 range. I reamed them and still have it. It was in really excellent condition when I got it, and didn't look to have been shot much. I didn't even try shooting it as it came to me.

I also have an older Taurus revolver with .360+ throats (that's as big as my small set of inside pin gauges go). Maybe it thinks it's a Makarov. It actually shoots well enough to be useful, if not a match gun. I'm reluctant to spend as much on an oversized mold as I did on the gun. Not sure what I'm going to do with it as other than the throat issue I rather like it.

In general the revolvers I've seen over the years are all well made. While the earlier guns (I'm going to use 1975 as the demarcation) seem to have wonderful fit and finish some of the machining (like throats) was highly variable. Later guns are much more consistent in that regard even if their fit and finish is slightly less precise.
 
What I do is take the bullet I intend to load, and drop it into the chamber. It should hang up in the throat, but I should be able to push it through with finger pressure. Then I drop it into the forcing cone and try to press it into the barrel -- it should NOT go with finger pressure. Every gun I've tested like that shoots well.

If the bullet WILL fall through the throat, and you're determined to shoot that bullet, give it a coat or two of powder coating to increase the diameter slightly.
 
I am surprised to see the suggestions that bullets should be smaller than throats. The general consensus from folks who are deeply involved in revolver accuracy seems to be that the ideal situation is that the gun grips the bullet progressively tighter as it travels through the gun. As an example, a .431 bullet should enter a .4305 throat, and then into a .430 lede, and then exit from a .4295 muzzle.

That is not to say that such perfection is necessary, or that guns with bullets smaller than throats cannot shoot quite well.
 
CraigC said:
The only measurement that matters is group size. Do you think I measured the throats of the Ruger that produced this group? No.
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If it shoots like that of course there's no need (I'm assuming of course that's not at 7 yards). If it shoots 5" at the same distance there is. I used to only measure if there was a problem but not anymore. Truly oversized throats are to be avoided. They tend to be either an expensive fix (cylinder replacement) or require a dedicated mold and load. If you ever buy one with oversized throats you'll understand. It can be dealt with but is it worth the trouble?
 
.38 Special said:
I am surprised to see the suggestions that bullets should be smaller than throats. The general consensus from folks who are deeply involved in revolver accuracy seems to be that the ideal situation is that the gun grips the bullet progressively tighter as it travels through the gun. As an example, a .431 bullet should enter a .4305 throat, and then into a .430 lede, and then exit from a .4295 muzzle.

That is not to say that such perfection is necessary, or that guns with bullets smaller than throats cannot shoot quite well.
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Firstly, I'm not sure there is consensus.

Secondly, and I can only respond for myself, this isn't a thread about the ideal, but on whether a revolver should be sent back to Ruger. My approach of not going above throat diameter (with throats at .433) and trying smaller is because it would likely be good enough and likely easier.

But I'm more the load and shoot type, making adjustments when there are accuracy or leading problems ...
 
Cump said:
Firstly, I'm not sure there is consensus.
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Among gun writers like Dave Scoville, Mike Venterino and Terry Murbach there is. As Mike Venterino liked to say that if you drop a bullet in the cylinder and it falls through and hits your toe you will most likely not get your best accuracy. My throats at .433 will probably work well enough with lead bullets in that size range but bullets like Berry's at .429 and XTPs at .430 probably will not be as accurate as they could be if the throats were a smaller size. I can make my cast bullets smaller to fit the throats but there is nothing I can do to increase the size of factory made jacketed bullets. And I don't know of anyone who makes a jacketed bullet that large.
 
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