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ThomasT
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See my earlier post.
Ruger Blackhawk Throats
- Thread starter ThomasT
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See my earlier post.
no.5enfield
Member
I agree that accuracy is the main goal, but Fermin has been on facebook talking about barrel choke, leading, etc. So I can see benefits to looking into throat and bore relationships.
TTv2
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It is if you like to shoot cheap lead bullets. After discovering how big throats were on Taurus Judges, it hardly sees them anymore because I don't like running a copper scrubber down the bore after shooting. For now it's a plated and jacketed only revolver.
Cump
Member
Yep. But I think the room for discussion isn't between .003 smaller in diameter and .001 larger, but .001 smaller and .001 larger -- or prob .0005 smaller and .001 larger.
And since the lead bullet used doesn't fall through, maybe that size is close enough ...
Other way around.
Too "loose" allows the hot gasses to blow past the base of the bullet & cause the base to melt.
Gas checks can help to some degree.
TTv2
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You got that backwards, if you shoot .430 lead bullets in a .433 throated revolver, the bore will get leaded up in less than 30 rounds and accuracy will quickly be affected, but with plated or jacketed bullets they will work just fine. I bought a box of .308" Speer semi jacketed 100 grain "plinker" bullets for use in a .327 revolver that has .314 throats and a .310 groove diameter. The bullets didn't have good neck tension at all, so I had to shoot them one at a time because I knew they'd jump crimp after one shot. I was hitting 8 inch plates at 15 yards no problem.
Bottom line is the entire reason Ruger is running throats so big is they are expecting people to be shooting jacketed bullets in the magnum revolvers. That's okay if it's not excessive, while I don't like .314 throats on .327, I can live with it, it's only .001 larger than .313 bullets are, but .433 is way oversize and unnecessary. The throats on the .45 Colt Redhawk are standard .452 and people are running .44 Mag level loads thru those without issue, so if Ruger is opening up the throats on their .44's to reduce pressures it sounds like a move made by bean counters.
no.5enfield
Member
I've seen several people say that their Ruger .454 Casulls could not reach published velocities due to oversized throats.
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ThomasT
Member
I already know that and wouldn't shoot .430 lead through .433 throats and don't have any lead bullets that small anyway. The only .429 to .430 bullets I have are jacketed bullets that I mentioned in my earlier post.
TTv2
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Would love to know what diameter the throats were. Should be .452, but given how hot .454 is I'll bet Ruger opened the throats up to .454 and if you call to complain the CS rep will say something dopey like, "Well, it's a .454 Casull, not a .452 Casull!"
This is the first I'm hearing of this with Ruger's .454s and I hope it's not true because I've occasionally thought about the 5 shot Bisley Super Blackhawk on occasion.
Steve51
Member
I have two Super Blackhawks in .44 Magnum. All the throats in both revolvers are .431. I use pin gauges to check the throats on all my revolvers and keep a record. I was pretty surprised how uniform the throats were on these two revolvers.
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ThomasT
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I decided I would call Ruger and just ask about the specs on this gun but they were closed today. So Monday I will call again and if I get an answer I will post it here. At this point I’m not too worried about the gun since I rarely shoot it and when I do it’s with lead bullets anyway. I mainly use the jacketed bullets in the rifle.
But I appreciate everyone’s responses and suggestions. Thanks.
But I appreciate everyone’s responses and suggestions. Thanks.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
No, it isn't.
Ruger has made cylinders with both undersized and oversized throats. The undersized throats can be opened up appropriately once the barrel grove diameter has been measured / confirmed.
If you have a revolver with the wrong throat dimension, too big or too small, it can still be accurate enough. But you can only get a super accurate revolver if you select a revolver with the proper throat dimension. Or, you can buy a revolver with undersized throats and open them up.
If your throats are too big, as in the OP, then you will only have a run of the mill revolver unless you buy a new cylinder.
If you have a revolver with the wrong throat dimension, too big or too small, it can still be accurate enough. But you can only get a super accurate revolver if you select a revolver with the proper throat dimension. Or, you can buy a revolver with undersized throats and open them up.
If your throats are too big, as in the OP, then you will only have a run of the mill revolver unless you buy a new cylinder.
LOLBELL
Member
Nope - throats is what I have in mind. But - I do admit I was too quick to dismiss the effect of chamber mouths that are too small. Those can also be problematic.
However - for too small - all that needed is to have them reamed.
A fairly simple fix.
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ThomasT
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The best situation is if the bore and throats match and the bullets are a correct fit for the bore. On a 44 mag the bore should be .429 to maybe .430. Then the throats a thousandth above the bore diameter. Those dimensions would be perfet for the common jacketed bullets and then lead bullets could be sized to .431 and they should seal in the throats and then in the bore. My gun does not have those matched dimensions.
Ross Seyfried and Gil Sengal both wrote about bore to cylinder fit in several articles. So have several other writers in the past when I used to buy gun magazines. So I have a good idea of what should be the measurements of the gun. Let me put it this way. If you bought one of the expensive Freedom Arms guns and the throats were were .433 on a 44 mag revolver would you want that corrected? I would because its an improper fit.
But like CraigC said the real test is "How Does It Shoot"? Thats what it all comes down to. And thats something I admit I haven't done a serious test on. Just shooting from field positions at rocks with lead bullets. And its accurate with those.
Ross Seyfried and Gil Sengal both wrote about bore to cylinder fit in several articles. So have several other writers in the past when I used to buy gun magazines. So I have a good idea of what should be the measurements of the gun. Let me put it this way. If you bought one of the expensive Freedom Arms guns and the throats were were .433 on a 44 mag revolver would you want that corrected? I would because its an improper fit.
But like CraigC said the real test is "How Does It Shoot"? Thats what it all comes down to. And thats something I admit I haven't done a serious test on. Just shooting from field positions at rocks with lead bullets. And its accurate with those.
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ThomasT
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OK I decided to slug my barrel to see what the lands and grooves measure. I used a dead soft .440 ball for my 45 caliber BP rifle for a slug. The grooves measure .432 and the lands measure.417. So the lands are .0075 tall. That’s good. But best of all with a barrel at .432 and the throats at .433 that should be a perfect match.
For jacketed bullets I will use the MagTech 240gr bullets that measure .431 a when I cast with my new Lee mold I will adjust my sizer to size the bullets at .433 and be done with it.
For jacketed bullets I will use the MagTech 240gr bullets that measure .431 a when I cast with my new Lee mold I will adjust my sizer to size the bullets at .433 and be done with it.
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TTv2
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Agree to disagree then
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I'm not going to agree to disagree when I know your statement is flat wrong.
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