Ruger Mini 14: questions about when Ruger fixed the accuracy issues.
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rodregier
Member
I had a 183 series stainless Mini-14 years ago. POI would walk as it heated up. Sold it and got a Colt AR15 pattern rifle. Never regretted the decision. The AR15 pattern is a lot earlier to clean, has better spare parts and accessories availability too.
FYI - for a while Thermold was making 30 rd magazines for the Mini-14. Those worked great. I foolishly sold them shortly before the federal magazine capacity regs changed in Canada around the same time I sold the Mini-14. (They could have been reworked to comply with the law).
FYI - for a while Thermold was making 30 rd magazines for the Mini-14. Those worked great. I foolishly sold them shortly before the federal magazine capacity regs changed in Canada around the same time I sold the Mini-14. (They could have been reworked to comply with the law).
carbine85
Member
Maybe I should have said "limited combat rifle" as in the examples listed above.
DAdams
Member
Mini14 cool factor over rides any measure of practicality.
shotsfired
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To my knowledge Ruger has not fixed the accuracy issue.
The issue is the barrel configuration Behind the gas block, it is too thin and that causes whip when it gets hot.
To fix it, they would have to re-tool and change the forgings for the op-rod, gas block and receiver and as long as they sell, why put all that money into tooling.
But...If they did change it all and make the barrel .750 from the receiver to the muzzle it would solve the problem, then maybe they would come out with the .308 version again !!!
In the meantime, I put a trueshot barrel stabilizer and modular front sight on mine and I love it, more than accurate enough for a carbine and completely reliable with Ruger mags.
The issue is the barrel configuration Behind the gas block, it is too thin and that causes whip when it gets hot.
To fix it, they would have to re-tool and change the forgings for the op-rod, gas block and receiver and as long as they sell, why put all that money into tooling.
But...If they did change it all and make the barrel .750 from the receiver to the muzzle it would solve the problem, then maybe they would come out with the .308 version again !!!
In the meantime, I put a trueshot barrel stabilizer and modular front sight on mine and I love it, more than accurate enough for a carbine and completely reliable with Ruger mags.
Just came back from a range test with my 581 mini-14. These were slowfire 20 round mags from a bench rest. My mini-14 does have a barrel stabilizer, trigger job with 1x4 optic. The loads both were a charge of 22 grns of benchmark, LC brass and Federal primers. I think it's one fine carbine. View attachment 200126
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The area behind the gas block (between the gas block and the receiver) is not as critical as the area from the gas block to the muzzle. Remember, that area is captured between the receiver and gas block. The barrel from muzzle back to gas block is where the whip is that can cause bullets to fly - especially at the muzzle. That's the reason why those aftermarket Accurizer/stabilizer on the Mini-14s worked. It provided greater rigidity and damped the whip.
BTW, I still have to install my accurizer/stabilizer but before I do, I want to do some before and after tests.
BTW, I still have to install my accurizer/stabilizer but before I do, I want to do some before and after tests.
Back in 2010, a good friend and I both bought new Mini-14 rifles. They have the heavier tapered barrel and winged front sights that identify the improved models.
My pal's rifle still has a 3-9X Leupold aboard, just because it shoots so well that way that he refuses to change to a more-compact scope.
Mine has the Leupold "Mark AR" 1-4X optic. Both rifles are satisfactory, and we are both OLD and opinionated riflemen (now both well past 70 years).
On one memorable occasion, I watched my friend fire FIVE CONSECUTIVE five-shot, 100-yard groups with handloaded 55 Hornady V-Max bullets. The LARGEST group was 1.25", and three of the remaining four groups were just under one inch. My own Mini-14 does equally well (when I do my part!)
Neither rifle has fired a factory load, to my knowledge. The accuracy is just fine for our purposes, and if we need 1/2" or smaller groups, we have HEAVY varminters for that, too.
We are two contented owners of late-model Mini-14s, and think Ruger has done a great job.
My pal's rifle still has a 3-9X Leupold aboard, just because it shoots so well that way that he refuses to change to a more-compact scope.
Mine has the Leupold "Mark AR" 1-4X optic. Both rifles are satisfactory, and we are both OLD and opinionated riflemen (now both well past 70 years).
On one memorable occasion, I watched my friend fire FIVE CONSECUTIVE five-shot, 100-yard groups with handloaded 55 Hornady V-Max bullets. The LARGEST group was 1.25", and three of the remaining four groups were just under one inch. My own Mini-14 does equally well (when I do my part!)
Neither rifle has fired a factory load, to my knowledge. The accuracy is just fine for our purposes, and if we need 1/2" or smaller groups, we have HEAVY varminters for that, too.
We are two contented owners of late-model Mini-14s, and think Ruger has done a great job.
tark
Member
I am an old fart, so inherent accuracy means nothing to me, I can't shoot ANY rifle as well as it is capable of shooting. Having said that, from my point of view, the Mini-14 is far superior to ANY AR-15. I wouldn't give you a squirt of P--- for any of those plastic POSs.
My Mini was cheap compared to any AR, easier to load and fire, has superior mags, (steel, not that expensive, even from Ruger)and I am still waiting for my first stoppage. I have roughly 2000 rounds through the gun. I think that most of the accuracy issues involve that wobbly, loose rear sight the early ones had.
I will admit that ARs have long since overcome their early problems and that they are by far the most inherently accurate rifle the US military has ever issued. They will shoot rings around any NM M-14 or M1, I admit this. But I never got over seeing men die in Vietnam because the M-16s wouldn't work.
My Mini was cheap compared to any AR, easier to load and fire, has superior mags, (steel, not that expensive, even from Ruger)and I am still waiting for my first stoppage. I have roughly 2000 rounds through the gun. I think that most of the accuracy issues involve that wobbly, loose rear sight the early ones had.
I will admit that ARs have long since overcome their early problems and that they are by far the most inherently accurate rifle the US military has ever issued. They will shoot rings around any NM M-14 or M1, I admit this. But I never got over seeing men die in Vietnam because the M-16s wouldn't work.
illinoisburt
Member
Skyshot that looks about normal for mini-14. Four inches or so groups for 100 yards with good ammo. An average AR will easily put those same rounds into under half that group or less, but that's entirely usable accuracy for short range (like under 150 yards) plinking, hunting, etc.
Phaedrus/69
Member
The Mini 14 has no reason to live circa 2014 IMOHO. My experience is dated as my rifle was an older one but the accuracy was terrible...we're talking 3"-4" five shot groups at 100 yards with ammo it liked. Worse with stuff it didn't. I hate hate hate the magazine release on the Mini!
That's just a personal thing to me, probably the AK guys like it just fine.
At least when I got mine it was 1/2 the price of a Colt AR. Now the prices are almost the same, with the Ruger being maybe $150-200 cheaper depending on where you shop. I'd much rather have a Windham AR for a few bucks less than a Mini 14.
That's just a personal thing to me, probably the AK guys like it just fine.At least when I got mine it was 1/2 the price of a Colt AR. Now the prices are almost the same, with the Ruger being maybe $150-200 cheaper depending on where you shop. I'd much rather have a Windham AR for a few bucks less than a Mini 14.
When you think about the Ruger Mini-14 you have to remember the military-style gun market of the late 70's and early eighties. The Chinese SKS's and AK's hadn't come to the US yet. There was a ban on the importation of ex-military rifles into the country until 1986. Sure, you could buy a Colt AR-15 for about 600-700 dollars, which was a lot of money back then. FN-FAL's and HK's were like a thousand dollars apiece. Along comes the Mini-14 at like 350 to 400 dollars. The Mini was short ranged, but was reasonably reliable. It a way, it mainstreamed semi-auto use in the US, for that it deserves a tip-o-the-hat.
illinoisburt
Member
Have to agree with CornCod on the Mini-14. Thirty years ago they were the most widely available and affordable 223 semi-auto. I don't recall anyone ever claiming the Rugers were anything more than plinkers due to the caliber. Ammo was either 556 55gr ball or 45-52gr varmit bullets.
Still have and enjoy shooting an early 80's ranch rifle version (with the E2 choate stock). Definitely not a tack driver, but eats pretty much any 223 or 556 regardless of bullet weight and throws them into the same softball sized cluster at 100 yards. For what it is, it works just fine.
Sounds like pretty awful accuracy, right? Depends on perspective. Most new hunting rifles back then would shoot somewhere around 2-3 inch groups with factory ammo (some much worse). People devoted a lot of time and resources figuring out ways to shrink groups with new stocks, bedding, hand loading ammo, etc. The acheivement of consistent 1 moa was held in awe and some skepticism since the average guy did not get those results. So long as you could hit a soda can at 100 yards, it was considered acceptable and the mini-14 would usually pass that test.
We are pretty well spoiled now. The cheapest new bargain bolt gun will cloverleaf with boring regularity and most AR's aren't far behind. No one is going to doubt you made hits on a 400 yard gong with them. So by today's standards, the new mini-14 needs needs some improvement. Still it's nice to have a wood and steel option that isn't a com-bloc.
Still have and enjoy shooting an early 80's ranch rifle version (with the E2 choate stock). Definitely not a tack driver, but eats pretty much any 223 or 556 regardless of bullet weight and throws them into the same softball sized cluster at 100 yards. For what it is, it works just fine.
Sounds like pretty awful accuracy, right? Depends on perspective. Most new hunting rifles back then would shoot somewhere around 2-3 inch groups with factory ammo (some much worse). People devoted a lot of time and resources figuring out ways to shrink groups with new stocks, bedding, hand loading ammo, etc. The acheivement of consistent 1 moa was held in awe and some skepticism since the average guy did not get those results. So long as you could hit a soda can at 100 yards, it was considered acceptable and the mini-14 would usually pass that test.
We are pretty well spoiled now. The cheapest new bargain bolt gun will cloverleaf with boring regularity and most AR's aren't far behind. No one is going to doubt you made hits on a 400 yard gong with them. So by today's standards, the new mini-14 needs needs some improvement. Still it's nice to have a wood and steel option that isn't a com-bloc.
When walking around the farm, it's my gun of choice and not because of accuracy. It just points and swings so well IMO. I have no problems hitting running yotes out past a couple of hundred yards. It's true an AR will out shoot the mini as far as benchrest groups go. But get that heart rate up from walking up a mountain pasture and jump a coyote, I can always seem to acquire the target much more quickly with the mini and not with either of the two AR's I own. But that's just me and I know that everyone has their own preference. One gun does not fit all and that's why it's nice to have many.
tark
Member
Back40, If you know where there is a NEW AR-15 for less than the 700 I paid for my mini; please tell us. I have never seen one that cheap. The Mini is easier to load and fire because it is more user friendly. Lefties can manipulate the mini's mag release and safety with more ease than an ARs At least that is what my lefty friends tell me. The Mini is far easier to clean than an AR with the sole big disadvantage being you must clean it from the muzzle....so just be careful.
Not that you have to clean it that often...I mentioned that I have two thousand rounds through mine....I haven't cleaned it yet, just kept it well lubed. Try that with your stupid gas system on an AR. Those things remind me of a car which has its exhaust pipe pointed at the air cleaner intake. <deleted>
Ars are wonderfully accurate rifles, I was working for Les Baer when we sent out a 204 Ruger AR that later shot a 4 1/2 " ten shot group at 600 yards. But the are also high maintenance prima- donnas
To me, an Ar is a flawed design that, through on enormous expenditure of work and effort was turned into an acceptable military rifle and an unmatched target rifle. It should have been relegated to the latter role only, decades
ago.
I'll still take my mini over an AR.
Not that you have to clean it that often...I mentioned that I have two thousand rounds through mine....I haven't cleaned it yet, just kept it well lubed. Try that with your stupid gas system on an AR. Those things remind me of a car which has its exhaust pipe pointed at the air cleaner intake. <deleted>
Ars are wonderfully accurate rifles, I was working for Les Baer when we sent out a 204 Ruger AR that later shot a 4 1/2 " ten shot group at 600 yards. But the are also high maintenance prima- donnas
To me, an Ar is a flawed design that, through on enormous expenditure of work and effort was turned into an acceptable military rifle and an unmatched target rifle. It should have been relegated to the latter role only, decades
ago.
I'll still take my mini over an AR.
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loose noose
Member
My Mini-14, (181) is in a Choate stock, has had a trigger job, and also I installed an Accu-Strut. (Also tightened up the rear aperture sight) Not only does it look better, more like a m-14 that I carried as a Marine, but it will put a 20 round magazine within 3" at 100 yards from a bench. Prior to the work it would put 2-3 rounds within a couple of inches at 100 yards, and then string all the rest all over the target. In fact it will put 5 rounds at moa; which is all I care about.
I've got an inexpensive scope, that I mount on a B-Square when I feel the need for more precision. BTW never considered a pos,
I've got an inexpensive scope, that I mount on a B-Square when I feel the need for more precision. BTW never considered a pos,
tark, you are clearly ignorant regarding the ar platform.
http://www.slip2000.com/blog/s-w-a-t-magazine-filthy-14/
that same rifle is now over 40k rounds.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...+M&P+Semi-Automatic+223+Remington5.56+NATO+10
^ and i've seen them for as little as $575 for a factory new S&W sport.
i've also tlaked with lefty's that have abosultely no issue running a standard ar platform. all depends on the user's preference.
Phaedrus/69
Member
If you check Bud's you can get a base model Windham for $550. I'd take that one over a Mini any day.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Mini's are great rifles, but the newer ones are definitely more accurate than the '80s and early '90s ones.
I shot a 188-series Ranch Rifle from circa 1989 to 2004 or so. Fit and finish of my Mini was very nice and it was very reliable, but accuracy was poor even from a cold barrel (I was getting 5 MOA from a rest and rear bag, with premium ammo and a variety of scopes). I think mine was worse than average, but there was definitely a lot of variability. By all accounts the 580-series-and-up mini's are much more accurate. I loved how light and handy mine was, both with the factory stock and with a Choate E2, and it was my go-to HD long gun for many years.
Back in the day, a lot of people found that accuracy improved greatly by shortening the barrel to 16.1" and recrowning (effectively making the barrel stiffer), threading the barrel and installing a heavy flash suppressor to put more weight at the muzzle (thereby reducing vibration amplitude), and installing aftermarket gas port bushings with smaller ports (the older minis were often vastly overgassed; mine would throw brass 20 or 30 feet, and that plays heck with barrel bending when you launch that heavy op rod/gas catcher off of a cantilevered gas block).
If I still had my Mini, I'd be cleaning it from the breech with a bore snake, I think, and using a good rod guide/muzzle protector if I ever needed to use a rod. After 15+ years of shooting and cleaning from the muzzle on mine, I could see a hint of muzzle wear (stainless barrel) that could have been from the aluminum cleaning rod.
A Clean Wouldn't Hurt
My mini-14 never jammed, except for one bolt lockup on an overpressure reload that a friend accidentally gave me, and that wasn't the rifle's fault. My AR (Rock River 16" midlength) has never jammed either, even though I shoot mostly cheap steel-case Tula and Wolf. As long as they are lubed, they'll run (and that is true of most semiautos).
I shot a 188-series Ranch Rifle from circa 1989 to 2004 or so. Fit and finish of my Mini was very nice and it was very reliable, but accuracy was poor even from a cold barrel (I was getting 5 MOA from a rest and rear bag, with premium ammo and a variety of scopes). I think mine was worse than average, but there was definitely a lot of variability. By all accounts the 580-series-and-up mini's are much more accurate. I loved how light and handy mine was, both with the factory stock and with a Choate E2, and it was my go-to HD long gun for many years.
Back in the day, a lot of people found that accuracy improved greatly by shortening the barrel to 16.1" and recrowning (effectively making the barrel stiffer), threading the barrel and installing a heavy flash suppressor to put more weight at the muzzle (thereby reducing vibration amplitude), and installing aftermarket gas port bushings with smaller ports (the older minis were often vastly overgassed; mine would throw brass 20 or 30 feet, and that plays heck with barrel bending when you launch that heavy op rod/gas catcher off of a cantilevered gas block).
I see an S&W M&P Sport for $630 right now; this is a no-frills gun with no ejection port cover and no forward assist, but it is well made and reliable. You can probably find an AR with forward assist and port cover for $700 or so if you look around.
The mini is definitely easy to clean, and field stripping is a snap (pull the trigger guard and remove the trigger group, and there you are). The bolt takes some practice to get out and back in quickly, though, and like the AR there are some small parts you can lose (the bolt hold-open thingy behind the left-side plate comes to mind). You also have to be sure to grease the knob on the bolt and its slot in the op rod well, or else you'd get galling (at least on my stainless mini). My biggest beef with Mini maintenance was that Ruger refuses to sell you certain spare parts; the only way to get a spare bolt, for example, was to remove your old bolt and then ship the boltless rifle back to Ruger.
If I still had my Mini, I'd be cleaning it from the breech with a bore snake, I think, and using a good rod guide/muzzle protector if I ever needed to use a rod. After 15+ years of shooting and cleaning from the muzzle on mine, I could see a hint of muzzle wear (stainless barrel) that could have been from the aluminum cleaning rod.
Mini's are very reliable, but AR's run fine under the same regimen (well lubed but not cleaned), as do AK's. Here's a basic AR after 14,000 rounds of Wolf steel-case and no cleaning, just lots of lubrication:
A Clean Wouldn't Hurt
AR's exhaust to the atmosphere out of the gas vent holes in the side of the bolt carrier. Unless the rifle is overgassed, or suppressed, you don't get all that much more gas in the receiver than an AK puts there, in my experience. Suppressed is another story, of course...
A rifle that is tuned for maximum accuracy is going to be more temperamental than a rack-grade AR, just like the highly accurized mini's back in the day with tight match chambers, lighter springs, and the gas turned way down. I'm not sure that's a fair comparison to the reliability of rack-grade guns, though.
My mini-14 never jammed, except for one bolt lockup on an overpressure reload that a friend accidentally gave me, and that wasn't the rifle's fault. My AR (Rock River 16" midlength) has never jammed either, even though I shoot mostly cheap steel-case Tula and Wolf. As long as they are lubed, they'll run (and that is true of most semiautos).
tark
Member
Good points guys, But I guess I can never get over the sight of men dying in Vietnam because the things wouldn't work.
I must check out the low priced ARs you have all mentioned, but I have to wonder if they are constructed of the best of materials..... you get what you pay for.
And I also must apologize for the salty language in post 203 that some of you may have seen before it was edited out. I thought people used salty language in the real world,,,, but I now know that nobody ever says bad words in the real world.
I must check out the low priced ARs you have all mentioned, but I have to wonder if they are constructed of the best of materials..... you get what you pay for.
And I also must apologize for the salty language in post 203 that some of you may have seen before it was edited out. I thought people used salty language in the real world,,,, but I now know that nobody ever says bad words in the real world.
Big Shrek
Member
There are sub $600 AR's aplenty..start with Palmetto State Armory...or Tennessee Arms...
If you could field strip yours blindfolded in the Army or USMC, you can build one for under $500.
That being said, the Mini-14, to be used to make the target concerned,
until he figures out its a mini-14, and you will never hit him with it
That's been the running joke since they came out...sorry, them's the breaks...
Yeah, I know, Ruger built it to be an American AK, which is does alright at...
takes a beating, a dusting, a rainstorm, and still goes bang...
about as accurate as an AK also...can be tweaked...but at a cost...might as well get an AR
For the given useable range, I'd rather have a Marlin 336 .30-30 or .35
Sadly, I'm being pulled into AR's again, mostly due to my retired Jarhead Wifey
wanting a PINK AR for gosh-sakes...Hey, who is gonna tell her NO??
I don't want her K-Bar sticking out of my tender vittles...lol
And this handguard in pink as well...ah well, Happy Wifey, Happy Lifey!!
If you could field strip yours blindfolded in the Army or USMC, you can build one for under $500.
That being said, the Mini-14, to be used to make the target concerned,
until he figures out its a mini-14, and you will never hit him with it
That's been the running joke since they came out...sorry, them's the breaks...
Yeah, I know, Ruger built it to be an American AK, which is does alright at...
takes a beating, a dusting, a rainstorm, and still goes bang...
about as accurate as an AK also...can be tweaked...but at a cost...might as well get an AR
For the given useable range, I'd rather have a Marlin 336 .30-30 or .35
Sadly, I'm being pulled into AR's again, mostly due to my retired Jarhead Wifey
wanting a PINK AR for gosh-sakes...Hey, who is gonna tell her NO??
I don't want her K-Bar sticking out of my tender vittles...lol
And this handguard in pink as well...ah well, Happy Wifey, Happy Lifey!!
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