Ruger Old Army

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mec

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My memories and resentment of the Old Army both go back almost to the inception of it in 1973. A few years after it came out, a dude showed up at the local percussion revolver match with one of these tricked out with a one pound trigger and snatched first prize away from me and my CVA 58 Remington. These things pitched the old black powder matches in to an equipment race. Pretty soon the choice became, get an old army or, quit in disgust. These meets are not nearly as popular as they used to be.

The Old Army is not a replica of anything or a relic of any time. Looked at independently though, it has a certain charm all its own and one very big time practical rason de etre ( a little frenchy-frog talk there.} I think I'll save that for last.
oldarmload.JPG

An Internet/ shooting gathering good buddy sent me one of these to delve and I checked it out today with a rip-roaring false start and then the sort of performance you might expect from the ruger. My first notion was that since the chambers held nine more grains of powder (struck off level) than my Colt and Remington copies, It would perform very well with substantially heavier charges. Reasonable, since my replicas respond well to full loads and substantial compression with Pyrodex or fffg.

So, I loaded up with a cylinder extremely full of .457" balls over a compressed 45 grains of Swiss fffg. Visions of ballistic sugar plums danced in my head as the first 6 chambers went across the screens at 1159 fps/ 66 fps spread and seemed to be hitting well enough down range for what I was doing- Shooting two handed over the sky screens. The same volume of Pyrodex P did 1267 but sprawled out at 211 fps extreme spread. Local temperatures ranged across the 70s.

The bad part came when I sat down and tried to shoot some groups at 60 feet. They spasticated all over the target with five to seven inch spreads. I started working backwards and managed a 4" group with 40grain/equivalent of pyrodex-still not good and I didn't bother chronographing it. Guns and loads that throw smooth-bore patterns are not interesting regardless of power level.

The goodness set in at 35 grains of Swiss or Pyrodex. and the figures in the picture show that The extreme spreads were well managed and the foot poundage of energy is in the range of .45 Acp Ball and the common standard pressure 9mm loads.

This analogy holds up pretty well for the bullet loads too as they are spanning the 300+ foot pound range. The chambers would hold the Lee bullet and 30 grains of powder but 35 was too much. The best news was that once I had dropped into the 30-35 grain charges, accuracy set in. The largest group was an even two inches and the smallest was 1.5." with the bullets surprisingly, shooting as good as the round ball. These bullets were cast in a lee mold and came out a bit bigger than the advertised .452 diameter cast from wheelweights. Since the chambers on this OA measure .451-2, they gripped the walls well enough to avoid bullet creep.

oldarmyleebp.jpg

Importantly, The Ruger is about as reliable as a caplock can be- which is to say, not quite as reliable as a cartridge revolver but a lot more reliable than a lot of the half-a semi autos people leave in their night stands or carry around with them. I shot about 100 rounds with no cap fragment jams and only a couple of cap fragment "Hesitations". I cleaned the bore between every cyliderfull but paid almost no attention to the base pin or other surfaces. The revolver never gummed up from black powder residue. I had one failure to detonate a cap on first strike and one very quick hang-fire. The adjustable sights, screwed all the way down brought the groups to center just above the sight picture at 60 feet. The bullet loads shoot maybe an inch and a half above the balls.

Now for its Raison de Etre, or whatever. In so far as the Federal Government is concerned, it is not a firearm. Under the penal code of the State of Texas and a number of other jurisdictions, it is neither a firearm or a handgun since it does not fire fixed cartridges. This makes purchase, ownership, transportation of it relatively free of restrictions. Some states go ahead and classify them as firearms with all restrictions applicable but you can still shoot them in England and if Texas regards it as a "replica of a pre 1898 firearm that does not fire fixed cartridges", you could probably carry it down the street. {You'd get arrested, of course, but you might beat the rap.}
 
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Great Post!!!
I like my Rugers Old Army, I have two a s. s. and a carbon one.
In my opinion and experience Pyrodex don't ignite well in small hole nipples.
For me, blackpowder 3 F do much better in accuracy and consistent shooting.

I am very jealous of those beautiful grips in stag, where you got them??
regards
black bear
 
Nice write-up mec. Interesting that you found the ''usual'' effects of reducing charge. I say that cos two guys at my very old club way back both shot these - the stainless versions - and found exact same. Once ''tuned'' with load and projectile they were astonishingly accurate.

We did long range BP handgun at Bisley (UK) back in 80's and my palty ol' Colt repro was totally trounced by these desirable peices. My Colt I only used to stoke with a mere (IIRC) 25 grains under a .454 ball - which was fairly OK.

If I was still as keen as once on cap and ball shooting I'd love to have one of those - but sadly age and laziness (read hate cleaning) have taken over! :)
 
The velocities I was getting with the heavy loads resembled what comes out of my Uberti Dragoon. Difference there, is the U-dragoon has even bigger chambers I guess. It gets fine accuracy with 40-50 grains of black or pyrodex p. Nothing wrong with the velocities and energies the ruger was getting at the more sedate level though- a good bit more energetic than I usually load in my 60 army and 58 Remington nmas.

Pyrodex is usually pretty consisent for me but it sure didn't like the 45 grain charge in this gun.
 
Forgot to say before - I only ever used BP fffG. Some folks reckoned that while Pyrodex was ''adequate'' in their front stuffer rifles - it was a bear to use in cap and ball.

I have meant to get my Rem repro dirty and try 777 or even clean shot - but as either still merit a post-shoot clean... have chickened out so far! :rolleyes: :D
 
oh yeh, the grips. They are one of the sets I bought back before the stuff got to be worth its weight in gold. Usually on one of my blackhawks but I thought they would do good in the pictures.
If you want black powder here, you have to order it hazmat or get lucky on an out of town trip. Actually pyrodex p usually works very well - fortunate given the bp situation. H777 works too but I've found it erratic used volumn for volumn with black. With reduced charges, it can be very accurate, doesn't foul much but probably needs the same type of cleaning you do with black.
 
Damn!! I knew there was something about those grips!! :) They do look very smart on there. That BP situation sux - I am lucky that my FFL always seems to have some cans of Goex, tho the slow rate I am using it - I'll probably be good till death!

Oh - of course - most BP of mine has been used last year or two when at a shoot where a nifty mortar gets used ...... takes a slide fit beer can - filled with sand. Two capsfull of Goex and 2" of cannon fuse and 'boom' - wonderful graceful parabolla! :p
 
loads added- first post

The buffalo conicals came in today and I developed one really promising combination. I usually don't get the best consistency with full loads of H777, but today it beat out a lighter load of the same powder and several pyrodex charges. Turned in a 50 yard six shot group of 5" while I was shooting over the chronograph and an average velocity of 1066 fps with a 51 fps spread. Energy levels are just above the factory .45 colt loads and the favored hunting handloads of 250 grain bullet at 900 fps
 
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Checked it out with H777. The ball sits down on a 35 grain black powder graduated measure full without much or any compression Loaded like that I got 1046 fps over eight rounds, 89 fps extreme spread. Higher than pyrodex P and lower than swiss ffg. The group was 1.8" at 60 feet which is the basic same as with the other components. This was with .457 balls. I also tried .454s but some of the hornadys were undersized and loose in the chambers. ( while others were tight enough to shave a ring of lead)
 
mec,
I shoot balls, home cast, from pure lead.
As I have stated in other posts, the Ruger Old Army is the most accurate handgun that I own in my rather extensive arsenal.
Zeke
 
Zeke, I agree, my 7 1/2" stainless ROA is my most accurate too! P95, I hate cleaning guns too. I use Cleanshot in my Old Army, and clean it only about every three trips to the range!! No corrosion problems whatsoever with Cleanshot. Try it, Im sure you wont go back to Pyrodex/BP.
 
Elvis - certainly if I had a ROA stainless, I would probably go the cleanshot route and be able to leave cleaning every time - I do use it in M/L rifles at times. My only cap and ball right now is a Pietta 44 Rem pattern - and I don't think I could leave that too long after shooting.

Anyways - with age comes some extra lazyness - and that is probably my best (lame :rolleyes: ) excuse! :p
 
I hear ya P95, stainless is good for that. Im wondering what happened to the "bright stainless" 7.5" pistols in fixed and adj. sights. Now it seems they only make the 5.5" models in the bright finish. Why? Im looking for a bright adj. sight model, and it seems as if they`re rare as hen`s teeth!
 
Hmmm - had not realized the 7 1/2's were no more. Many years back at least two of my shooting buddies had those - always lusted for one but could not afford. Sad to think only 5 1/2's now - that'd be enough to stop me buying one, were I of a mind to consider it.
 
I bought one of the first Old Armies available in my home town back in 1972 or 73. It was a thunder-horse, both in size and blast effect, and the first "big bore" pistol of any kind I had used. Carried it in an old yankee flap holster and lubed it either with crisco or axle grease... There was a friend available who had grown up hunting with Bp rifle in the hills of Kentucky who showed me what I needed to know re: care and feeding.
I carried it for fun and defense at a time when I couldnt get a cartridge pistol legally due to the laws there. Accuracy was as good as anything Ive used since at 25 yards. Used black powder, 3f, and never felt "under-gunned", even when I moved to a far gun-friendlier place in the Rockies.
Alas, to my regret I traded that revolver off for a .38 when I was in college... needed a modern revolver for a security position and just didnt have the money for both. Still think I got taken on that deal!
Nowadays I have guns a plenty including quite a few replica BP rifles, pistols and shotguns. Have looked lustingly at those 5.5 inch stainless Old Armies- but always something else comes up for the 400+ bucks to be spent on.... Wish I had one just for the heck of it. That pistol never failed me... more than I can say about some "modern" weapons I have used! Live and learn, at great expense sometimes.
What is this "Clean Shot"? Does it keep the revolvers cleaner (residue) and less prone to rust? H777 rusts em if you dont clean em. Heh, don't ask how I know.
Thanks, this thread has really sparked the fires of reminescence for this ol geezer!
 
Clean Shot - by ''Cleanshot Technologies'' does seem to be the most free of anything sulfurous or corrosive. At least - strikes me that after shooting the residues are not overly hygroscopic. No idea of the formulation but certainly in my 50 cal ML rifle it is not bad, tho nothing really beats good ol' stinky BP in the end.

Like 777 it is quite pricey - IIRC when I got this some while back it was at least $25.

I'd certainly still clean after use but in a stainless possibly the least concerns over rapid cleaning.
 
ain't a 7 1/2 Old Army a thing of beauty?
And firing it off around a bunch of "modern" types is soo much fun.
I use 35 gr of Pyrodex P with a .457 ball and my accuracy is as good as any cartridge weapon at 25 yards. Ticks a whole lot of people off.

AFS
 
Ruger has a pretty good set of instructions that come with the OA, with load recommendations. Their suggested starting load and accuracy load is 20 grains of 3fG under a .457 lead round ball with corn meal filler between powder and ball. I have never chronographed this load, undoubtably slow like a 38 wad cutter, but very accurate. Used it for years for competitive shooting. Loading this is a bit of a pain though and as I've gotten lazy in my dottage I usualy throw 28 grains from a flask, cover it with a Wonder Wad followed by the ball. Use the same load in my Colt and Remington replicas.
 
Can you explain how you load the cornmeal ?
I have read that for years and was never clear exactly how it worked.



I am on my second Old Army. I had one when I was 18 years old. I was too young to buy a cartridge revolver, so I got the OA and shot it regularly. I had a nice Ruger flap holster for it also. After working for awhile in a power plant, I got carpal tunnel syndrome and had no feeling in my fingers. I shot my Old Army, went home and took it apart for cleaning and then I couldn't get it back together because I couldn't feel the parts in my fingers. So, I sold it as is in a box.
Not long ago, I was at a gunshow with a friend and mentioned that I would like to have another and as luck would have it, he had one for sale. I haven't fired it yet. In fact I kind of forgot I bought it. This thread reminded me to get busy with it.
Thanks for the load advice, I have no idea what loads I used to shoot in my first one. That was 20 years ago.
 
The corn meal just gets poured in on top of the powder before you seat the ball. Kind of a parfait. It requires and extra step and an extra measure of some sort but will let you experiment with lower powered loads while still seating the ball against the other ejecta. Some people use cream of wheat. One of those cereals compresses and the other does not. I disremember which is which.
 
Ah yes the old "corn meal" gag. I've never used it in any of my BP weapons- mainly Im lazy and it also cuts down on the amt of powder I can stuff in. With the OA I seem to remember a 28-30 gr load as being a standard. I was using a Lee 220(?) gr conical, cast from whatever lead material I could find at the time... Eventually I was able to work out the most amt of powder I could fit in under the conical. Perhaps not the most accurate but impressive, heh. With the conicals properly lubed it seems like very little grease was needed.
I just checked Midway's price on the stainless OA in 5.5 inch. Yikes! Ruger sure nuff does think a lot of their pistols!
Still the Remington clones I have can't hold a candle to that Old Army. Mebbe I can convince the wife we really NEED one (to leave to the kids, natch!)
I understand guys are putting Vaquero grips on the OA these days.. just the ticket, I never liked the grip much in comparison to the Colts.
 
Re: corn meal, when I used the 20 grain 3fG load I'd top it with an amount of corn meal measured with an empty 38 special case. Corn meal is compressable while cream of wheat isn't.
 
we don't know 'corn meal' or 'cream of wheat' here but semolina works fine and I got a second powder flask to throw it from. Like many people here I also made a higher front sight because I ran out of adjustment trying to get it on the bulleye UIT target at 25yds
 
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