Ruger SP101 D/A Pull?

[Deanimator]

I haven't messed with one in a few years, and never actually shot one, so I thought I'd ask those who own them.

Back in '93(?), a Chicago cop shot a guy in the face with a Ruger SP101. The city and he recently lost their behinds in a judgement against them for wrongful death.

The cop's final story (It changed a LOT) was that he "accidentally" pulled the trigger, shooting the victim in the head. Assuming that he started from a hammer down condition, how hard would it be to "accidentally" complete a double action pull? The last time I touched an SP101, I remember the D/A pull being AT LEAST as heavy as that of a stock S&W 36, if not more so. What's the typical D/A pull weight, assuming nobody monkeyed with the action?

A columnist for the Chicago Tribune, although critical of the shooting, bought into the idea that it was "accidental". Personally, I don't buy it. I've got a Smith Chief's Special and I can't imagine "accidentally" firing it double action, at least without falling down a flight of stairs in the process.

Any comments from SP101 owners?

 

[Jeff F]

My self, if I pull the trigger on a DA I pull it through and fire. I don't know how someone can accidental pull a double action trigger. If it was cocked single action and he had his finger on the trigger, then maybe. I do know of a couple of San Leandro cops that had AD's when they re holstered Colt official police .38 specials that had trigger shoes installed. One shot himself in the leg-foot.

 

[tblt]

You could only accidentaly shoot some one in single action, not in double.The trigger pull is too long and hard to do so.

 

[Deanimator]

If it was cocked single action and he had his finger on the trigger, then maybe.

Well, that's exactly what I thought. I think he either cocked it and had it to the guy's head, or he meant to shoot him. My guess is the latter. I'm betting he couldn't deal with pressure and freaked.

 

[461]

I've got one with a professionally done light trigger and there is no way to "accidentally" make it go off short of pulling the trigger through a long and fully intentional stroke.

Sounds like they lost their ass rightfully.

 

[Deanimator]

Sounds like they lost their ass rightfully.

And indeed they did. Guy's still dead though, and the man that murdered him was promoted to detective.

http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/police.shooting.verdict.2.610928.html

I plan to directly email the columnist if I can, to get his comment. He seems like a straight up guy.

 

[win308]

You live in Chicago...........you get what you get...(shot).

 

[sd]

not to hi-jack the thread, but i was in jury pool for a shooting case, woman shot a man with Glock, defense was it was an accident. Lawyers questioned the potential jurors about their gun ownership and usage. As a Glock owner i was quickly eliminated from the jury pool. Certainly wouldn't want a "gun" person sitting on trial about firearms. What great system.

 

[def]

"As a Glock owner i was quickly eliminated from the jury pool. Certainly wouldn't want a "gun" person sitting on trial about firearms. What great system."

That's a bunch of crap, right there. Seems to me that you could have had the best input as a juror on that case.

 

[eastwood44mag]

LOONG and HEAVY pull. Requires deliberate, intentional pulling. No such thing as an accident with a SP101.

 

[Redhawk 44]

Stock SP would have at least a 10-12 pd pull DA. Slicked up with the hammer bobbed, 5-6pd pull DA.

Enough adrenaline pumping and you could pull a truck with your trigger finger, need to know the exact details of what led up to the shooting and position of cop and victim/suspect. Plus a lot of other facts.

Sounds like Ruger didn't get drug into this as producing a "faulty" weapon. They usually try to pin the manufacturer to the liability wall also.

 

[Deanimator]

Stock SP would have at least a 10-12 pd pull DA. Slicked up with the hammer bobbed, 5-6pd pull DA.

I wondered about your latter point. I doubt that's authorized, but I'll try to actually find out.

I've gotten a reply from the columnist, restating that he thinks it was an accident. It seems like just a "feeling" on his part, since he didn't contradict any of my technical points. I think he just doesn't want to consider that there's a cop running around TODAY with a badge and a gun who intentionally shot an unarmed man for no reason.

I challenged him to find a Chicago cop with an SP101 or a S&W 36/60 and see if HE could "accidentally" pull the trigger D/A. It should be interesting to see if he's willing to find out for himself.

 

[_N4Z_]

I've got a stock SP101 357.

Of all my different firearms, it has the heaviest pull of any.

Chances slim to none it could be "accidentally" discharged from the DA position.

 

[Deanimator]

Chances slim to none it could be "accidentally" discharged from the DA position.

That seems to be the consensus position, unless it's been monkeyed with in some way.

I do recall seeing somewhere that they were allegedly looking into criminal charges still. Certainly a competent, non-corrupt examination of the technical issues would point in that direction.

 

[spwenger]

Two Points:

1.

Stock SP would have at least a 10-12 pd pull DA. Slicked up with the hammer bobbed, 5-6pd pull DA.

I had a student last year who brought along an SP101 with an action job by Teddy Jacobson. The trigger pull was nowhere near as light as 6 pounds. On the other hand, he also brought a pair of S&W 640-1's with trigger jobs by Teddy. One had a trigger pull of about 6 1/2 pounds, the other about 6 1/4 pounds, and it was not difficult to tell which was which.

2. A startle reaction is good for 25 to 50 pounds of grip pressure, more than enough to fire virtually any double-action handgun. Without debating the veracity of the officer involved, the key point here is that a double-action trigger does not provide a valid excuse for placing the finger inside the trigger guard before you are on target and prepared to fire. There have been numerous unintended discharges of double-action handguns that involved such Rule Three violations, coupled with involuntary muscle contractions of the gun hand when the non-gun hand suddenly clenched, such as when an officer sought to restrain or cuff a suspect.

 

[Rover 'n Rugers]

I have a SP-101 tuned by Teddy Jacobson that is now DAO. The DA before was noted by Teddy as 14 pounds and after 9 pounds. Somewhere in my mind I think the stocks range about 12 to 14 pounds. My SP will work at least down to 8.4 pounds DA but I recall a writer (M. Detty) in Combat Handguns testing a SP tuned by a now defunct operation of about 7.75 lb DA but got some misfires. I imagine one could be in the high 6's if tuned by Randy Lee but that is not the case with the Chicago gun.

 

[Deanimator]

2. A startle reaction is good for 25 to 50 pounds of grip pressure, more than enough to fire virtually any double-action handgun. Without debating the veracity of the officer involved, the key point here is that a double-action trigger does not provide a valid excuse for placing the finger inside the trigger guard before you are on target and prepared to fire.

Despite the officer's initial story, the video doesn't show anything that should have provoked a "startle reaction", which is doubtless why the Chicago PD tried so hard to prevent it being shown in its entirety. In fact, seconds after the shooting, the officer continues to speak to another man in a seemingly matter of fact fashion.

I'm not sure where I'm going to find out what the Chicago PD policy on modification of firearms is, but I'll try to find it. I suspect the Chicago PD itself is going to be suspicious of any such request for information.

I emailed the Chicago PD to see if they'd tell me what their policy on modifications, especially of trigger mechanisms was. It should be interesting to see if they'll disclose it.

 

[Ghost Tracker]

I have a professionally-tuned SP101 .357 mag. There's not a snowball's chance in July that a case of the yips pulled the LEO's finger completely through a DA cycle. It's too long & too heavy (even at 8 lbs). A para-legal could've won that case.

 

[Dan-O]

The trigger pull on my SP101 even after replacing the springs is still fairly heavy. The Wolff Springs, lightened it up some, but it made it smoother if nothing else.