Rumor Mill: Smith to phase out the Internal Lock?

[pingpong]

I want to know where that salesperson is too! But I'll drive from here in Phoenix all the way up to Boise just to hear more pearls of wisdom from that guy! That's the funniest thing I've heard in a long time.

 

[Guillermo]

What PingPong said.

Please let us know, though PM if you prefer, so that we can drop in

 

[massad ayoob]

As Hawk has already noted, it's a misquote.

In September during a visit to the factory, I learned that some in Springfield don't like the lock either and would like to get rid of it as much as anyone posting here.

In January at the SHOT Show, another S&W exec told me simply that it ain't gonna happen.

 

[nero45acp]

...and in local news, nero continues to shun current production S&W revolvers in favor of minty older specimens with beautiful bluing, wood stocks, and case-hardened hammers and triggers. Film at eleven...



nero

 

[18DAI]

Too bad S&W continues to stick to this idiotic "innovation". I would purchase a new model 27 8-shot, actually two a 3.5 and a 4", were it not for the lock.

Yes, I know it can be removed, but why would I reward S&W with my hard earned money for forcing this crap down my throat?

I prefer to seek out the real S&W's from years past.

 

[M1911]

Isn't Smith & Wesson owned by the company which designed the internal lock? Could that possibly be a factor?

No, because it isn't true.

Yes, S&W was purchased by a company called Saf-T-Hammer. Yes, Saf-T-Hammer did have a gun hammer safety product. No, the ILS is not the Saf-T-Hammer. The ILS was designed by a long-time S&W firearms engineer, who was with S&W prior to the acquisition, and who has since left the company. The last I heard, he was working at FN in South Carolina.

 

[smee781]

"Yes, I know it can be removed, but why would I reward S&W with my hard earned money for forcing this crap down my throat?"

I agree, and that is why I will not support Smith & Clinton with a new gun purchase. I not saying to get rid of the locks, I'm just saying that I should have a choice to buy a gun with or with out a lock. Same goes for Ruger and Springfield or anyone else with a built in lock. I won't buy another Taurus, but I like there lock better than the Smith's.

Smee781

 

[rhinoh]

So lock the gun.
Swallow the key.
After threat is over-
Eat a tub of Rig to get the key back ASAP.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I love it when my threads wont die.

 

[Virginian]

Dream on, lock haters, dream on.

 

[DougDubya]

Still referring to Smith and Wesson as "Smith and Clinton."

*sigh*

Must control tongue of lashing...

 

[PsychoGlory]

What is the exact number of failures from the ILS? I read about all the failures but almost no first hand accounts.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I saw one fail on a 642 firing light wadcutter loads.

 

[Hawk]

No, because it isn't true.

Yes, S&W was purchased by a company called Saf-T-Hammer. Yes, Saf-T-Hammer did have a gun hammer safety product. No, the ILS is not the Saf-T-Hammer. The ILS was designed by a long-time S&W firearms engineer, who was with S&W prior to the acquisition, and who has since left the company. The last I heard, he was working at FN in South Carolina.

I'm rather of a fan of facts over myth myself and will cheerfully confirm that my best efforts at the Wayback Machine failed to turn up anything in Saf-T-Hammer's offerings even close to the current IL.

But, if one is to be consistent with favoring facts, could we please drop the tired old canard that the lock was implemented to appease the Clinton administration?

The lock is non-compliant with the S&W/HUD agreement which clearly calls for the key to be unique to that gun, not some skate-key deal that's the same for every product manufactured by the firm.

HUD text available here:
http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/sw-hud.html

No doubt a forlorn request on my part - the pejorative "Hillary Hole" is so deeply embedded in myth and legend I suspect it will last until at least two generations die off. In that respect, I suppose the "incorporated the new owner's lock" is no more or less than countervailing myth.

But seriously - the notion that S&W, or anybody for that matter, would "comply" with an agreement by furnishing a non-compliant lock? Occam's Razor would indicate the lock is there because S&W's new owner wanted a lock - Saf-T-Hammer's or not.

The lock offers plenty of facets to dislike. There's no need to pile bogus reasons on top of the several real ones.

 

[wickedsprint]

A new 629/29 would be my next gun if they'd lose the lock..as it is..S&W won't ever see any of my money.

 

[cslinger]

A new 629/29 would be my next gun if they'd lose the lock..as it is..S&W won't ever see any of my money.

325 Nightguard for me. I only post this in hopes that one day they will read and understand there is a market for no lock guns. Seems like it would be relatively easy to simply design a plug to fill the ugly hole and offer lock and no lock versions so it was a consumer choice.

Alas, there are plenty of old Smiths. Ohh and I am a lock hater on aesthetics and principle much more so then mechanics. I actually think a lock is a great OPTION to sell to those who desire it.

 

[Benelli Shooter]

I immediately sold my 642 after I disassembled it and saw the internals of the lock first hand. I was astonished at the fragility of this lock. It is the biggest pile of c**p ever put into a handgun.

I WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER S&W PRODUCT UNTIL THOSE STUPID LOCKS ARE GONE!

S&W - can you hear me now?

The gun buying public should be punishing S&W for this stupid lock.

 

[Jim K]

What S&W could do is what Colt did with the SAA. They simply declared it a custom shop item, so it is not a production gun and they are making it only on a "custom" basis. That means that it doesn't need to pass a drop test like a regular gun.

If S&W chooses to do so, they could expand their classic custom line and make them without locks at a higher cost appropriate to a "custom" gun. How much would the "lock haters" pay for a new S&W without the lock? I bet they wouldn't buy any, their hatred of S&W is so intense and so deep-seated that they will never buy another gun from the company no matter what is has or doesn't have. (The same folks who rant about the lock also rant about MIM, stainless steel, and so on, so there will always be some excuse for not buying from the evil company.)

Jim

 

[Benelli Shooter]

"I bet they wouldn't buy any, their hatred of S&W is so intense and so deep-seated that they will never buy another gun from the company no matter what is has or doesn't have. (The same folks who rant about the lock also rant about MIM, stainless steel, and so on, so there will always be some excuse for not buying from the evil company.)"

Nice try. It is not an excuse. The lock is stupid. The lock is a sell out to evil people (Clinton). S&W should be punished until they admit their mistake and remove the abomination from their guns.

You can try to rationalize it all you want. They have lost more customers over that stupid ILS than they gained. They have monkeys running the company.

If you don't stand up to them and make them an example, others will do the same.

 

[18DAI]

Last time I checked, Safety Wesson charged ALOT for the lock equipped crap they are currently making. How much more could they charge for lock free?

I'd buy a 3" 686+ if it was lock free.

 

[Supertac45]

You should have told the salesman that a recent survey found 98% of the bad guys carry cuff keys and S&W lock keys just for that reason.

 

[MCgunner]

When asked, S&W consistently states the lock is a permanent feature.

I'm sure they aren't going to do anything on locks, but they COULD redesign it along the lines of Taurus, or better yet, RUGER, so you have to take the grips off to even see the POS. LOL I like the Taurus design, though, if you just HAVE to have the lock on there. It works perpendicular to recoil forces which would mean inertia on a light gun can't cause it to activate itself. Beyond that, it's not near as ugly a hole, resides on the hammer. But, what I've seen of Rugers, it's invisible, as it really should be. I'm not familiar with how Ruger's works or what models have one, though. My SP101 didn't have one at all. It's the newest Ruger that has come through my hands. All my Blackhawks are older guns.

 

[kdstrick]

Funny stuff! It reminds me of the guy that plans on putting his seatbelt on before having an accident. As if time would permit.

Still,with the lawyers running our country I just cannot see Smith going back to a non-lock frame. Think about the liability of such an action. Every accidental (or even purposeful) shot fired would be open to litigation because the lawyers would argue that Smith was legally liable because they made the gun "less safe" by removing this important safety feature.

It's BS, but you guys know that is how it would play out in our overly litigious culture. The trail lawyers are destroying this country.

 

[M1911]

I'm rather of a fan of facts over myth myself and will cheerfully confirm that my best efforts at the Wayback Machine failed to turn up anything in Saf-T-Hammer's offerings even close to the current IL.

But, if one is to be consistent with favoring facts, could we please drop the tired old canard that the lock was implemented to appease the Clinton administration?

Huh? Where did I ever raise that or comment on it? All I pointed out was that 1) the Saf-T-Hammer lock design is very different from the ILS, and 2) the ILS was, in fact designed by a S&W engineer. I've scrupulously stayed away from the whole Clinton era topic.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

All this wasted bandwidth all because the OP quoted one sentence on of all places Wikipedia but left off the next few lines.

Smith & Wesson announced in March, 2009, that it would begin phasing the internal lock out of its revolver lineup.

According to Mas Ayoob in a reply to this statement, however, he claims this is a misquote. "In September (2008) during a visit to the factory, I learned that some in Springfield don't like the lock either and would like to get rid of it as much as anyone posting here. In January (2009) at the SHOT Show, another S&W exec told me simply that it ain't gonna happen."