Russia / China joint exercises

[carebear]

My point on innovation is that it isn't owned by the state and thus will be developed, with profit as the motive, by all and sundry. Its the fastest way to get the highest quality goods. That's why our tech is and always will be (till they change to be like us) better than the Russians and Chinese combined.

Everybody who thinks they can make a buck (individual and corporation) invests their own time and money into building the better mousetrap, that is more cash and time than any single government can afford. All our gov has to do is buy the finished, tested expertise and tweak it for war, not pay every penny of every step of the R&D itself.

By outsourcing the actual production overseas we do put ourselves into a lag situation on spinning up for war, but we retain the domestic resources and manpower to do so quickly in time of need. Just like WWI and WWII.

And that's the stra-tee-ger-ee behind maintaining air and sea dominance. To ensure we have the time to mobilize in time of real need. We won't see Russian or Chinese boots on our soil or aircraft in our skies any more than we did the Germans or Japanese.

 

[c_yeager]

I wasn't disparaging the individual soldier or even their leadership. Although our guys are better trained, better led and better equipped AND come from a military background that just doesn't lose wars against Eastern opponents.

Have we ever actually WON a war in which Russia OR China were on the opposing side?

The dubious quality of their equipment isnt really an issue considering how MUCH of it they have. Yes, our stuff is much much better than theirs but they have a lot more in inventory than we do and the combined manufacturing ability of Russia and China is awesome to say the least.

The whole thing is academic anyways though, there is no way that they could project any amount of force to any area that wwe are currently concerned with. But, it could pose trouble if we ever end up in their neck of the woods (Korea for example).

 

[Waitone]

We are in a war where mass armies and huge fleets are of minimal import. This is a war whereby one side fields goons, thugs, psychopaths who have access to things like engineered germs, radioactive materials, nuclear devices and perhaps the most devastating weapon of all, the American media. You don't needs lots of stuff that goes bang when you can fly three planes into 3 buildings and sweep one trillion (yes, kiddies) one trillion dollars off the table. This is a war where the economy is the target, not our ability to wage war as in other conflicts.

All terrorism needs sponsors: money, communications, intelligence, logistics, etc. Only states can provide the infrastructure which allows terrorism to exist. Destroy a state's ability to support terror goons and terror abates for a time. Where the US has a problem is in the decision to strike states that may enable terror but at the same time sell us necessary commodities to run out economy. Decisions made 30+ years ago and reaffirmed every election since then will be how we are defeated. And so far I see no evidence of logic taking hold. Seems to me we are progressing down the same road as the cold war with no real change in our actions other than to use the military.

 

[trapshooter]

To restate what NMshooter said, there is an old saw which I forget the origin of:

"Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer".

 

[River Wraith]

Our government needs to focus on civil defense. We are ready and able to defend ourselves (well...at least 54% of us are) if they would just see it.

 

[carebear]

yeager,

We were winning on the ground in Korea against the Chinese when we agreed to an armistice, and we had not fully mobilized our economy or manpower. ("This Kind Of War"-Fehrenbach)

It's hard to tell what "would" happen because we've never gone spheres-to-the-wall against either nation.

The fact that they cannot project power is a key hint though. It points up the technological and systemic gap in abilities between Western and Eastern armies that has shown no sign of closing since the late Middle Ages.

Due to their history and culture, I am one of those that considers Russia the furthest West Eastern nation, not the reverse.

Waitone,

Our economy is designed in such a way that we were able to absorb that loss and now are back to growing. Capitalism is very survivable, if we could get all the socialism out of the way.

 

[NMshooter]

It is nice to see that I am not the only one who has read that book.

The Russians and the Chinese are not friends. They have always been competitors. They vie for control of resource rich areas throughout their continent. This is just Putin trying to save face, because he is in trouble, and he likes being president of Russia.

 

[carebear]

Forget how I got turned on to it.

If you want to understand the Korean War, it is the only book TO read. Also has a lot to say about the idea of the US as a world power and the responsibilities and challenges that come with it.

Issues we are still trying to duck to this day.

 

[NMshooter]

Pork Chop Hill by SLA Marshall is also an excellent book if you want a picture of that war from the foxhole. Since you are a former Marine you would probably enjoy Retreat, Hell! that was a very good read.

"We aren't retreating, we're advancing in a different direction."

Gotta love Chesty and the gang.