Russian noiseless cartridges

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Blakenzy

Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2004
Messages
917
Has anyone ever heard of Russian "noiseless" 7.62x?? cartridges, intended for small pocket pistols? which use some form of piston to launch the bullet, while containing the gases inside the case. Sounds pretty wild. Thanks for any details.
 
ATF would consider each and every individual cartridge to be a silencer in and of itself, requiring a $200 tax stamp per round.

Even so, I'd love to shoot one.
 
If that is real, I would like to shoot one. I don't know if it would be a problem with the ATF. If is not really a silenced weapon per se, is it?. It just doesn't make any noise.
 
Right, but if you put one into a weapon chambered for it, then you've "modified it to reduce the sound level" or somesuch along those lines. You've taken A: normal weapon, and B: seperate object, and combined them to produce C: modified weapon which produces a significantly lowered decibel rating. Hence the problem. If ATF didn't rule them to be silencers, then there'd be nothing legally prohibiting people from just simply going out and making their own Quiet Special Purpose Revolvers all day long.
 
By that definition, CB caps in .22 cal would be illegal. So would squib loads out of a long-barreled rifle.

Ammunition is not a silencing device. Some ammunition by its very nature is quieter than others.

The weapon itself hasn't been modified. It's just firing a non-standard type of ammunition.
 
Right, but if you put one into a weapon chambered for it, then you've "modified it to reduce the sound level" or somesuch along those lines
Click to expand...

You wouldn't have modified anything, the gun just doesn't make a lot of noise. If that were the case, subsonic ammo would require a tax stamp too.
 
Wow! I had no idea this existed. Too large and expensive to be practical on a large scale, but pretty cool nonetheless. I would love it if they could somehow make current cartridges even a little less loud. If ear protection wasn't needed that would be really nice.
 
It seems to me that laws regulating "sound suppressors" only cover objects, devices or firearm parts that are attached to, or form part of the barrel/bore assembly. Ammo, is neither "attached" to, nor does it form an integral part of a firearm.. It is something "cycled" trough an action and expelled from the firearm. I don't think current legislation acknowledges this type of ammo to even exist, or is it mentioned? ON the other hand the wording of the law probalby allows it to pretty much englobe anything a grouchy AFT agent wants it to...

I think this would make a cool car gun, being that you can fire from inside with out going deaf. Any ideas on energy/muzzle velocity?
 
Even if was a "device," it wouldn't be put into effect until you used it. So theoretically I'd think you could keep them and pay the tax stamp just prior to use...

"Excuse me, everyone wait a second...I have to get ahold of the ATF before I stop this armed robbery with my Russian noiseless cartridges. Shoot, my cell phone's out of battery. Anyone have a quarter? Ah heck, I'm just gonna go home and get my .45. Be right back."
 
General Geoff said:
But by that logic, a firearm manufactured with an integrated suppressor wouldn't require the tax stamp either...
Click to expand...

Of course, we're talking apple & oranges here, or "the ATF" & "logic", but I would consider an integrally silenced firearm to indeed by a "modified firearm".

The "there's no tax stamp for sub-sonic ammo" argument makes much more sense.
 
I never knew these cartridges/guns existed. Definitely an interesting topic after doing a little research and reading.
 
The Russians have a number of interesting ideas in this area, including at least two knives that have built-in single-shot pistols (such as the NRS-2; see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW3ZBLlPz_c ; in this model, the round is fired out the butt of the blade). They apparently started developing these after at least one example of the US QSPR (Quiet Special Purpose Revolver) was captured in Vietnam, which used the same sort of captured-piston technology in a re-worked N-frame S&W revolver.

NRS-2.jpg
 
Last edited:
They apparently started developing these after at least one example of the US QSPR (Quiet Special Purpose Revolver) was captured in Vietnam
Click to expand...
Surely not. First QSPR reached 'Nam in mid-1969, while i personally saw 7.62mm PZ internally silenced ammunition produced in 1965 - 4 years before first issue of QSPR, and PZ was not the first of its ilk in Soviet Spetsnaz armories.

However, earliest patent for similar system that i was able to find is dated back to 1902 (US Pat. No 692,819 for those interested)
 
Surely not. First QSPR reached 'Nam in mid-1969, while i personally saw 7.62mm PZ internally silenced ammunition produced in 1965 - 4 years before first issue of QSPR, and PZ was not the first of its ilk in Soviet Spetsnaz armories.
Click to expand...

I defer to your information on the Russian models; maybe the Russians are just better at hiding their developments? ;-)
In any case, the US version was needlessly complicated, leading to a large percentage of misfires. I've got a copy of the US Army's 1969 report on the QSPR trials in Vietnam, and it says that 74% of the users experienced at least one misfire during use.
 
Of course, we're talking apple & oranges here, or "the ATF" & "logic", but I would consider an integrally silenced firearm to indeed by a "modified firearm".
Click to expand...

ATF : logic :: water : oil strikes me as a more evocative analogy.

I wonder how hard it would be to get a shotgun to work along these lines. Have something like really thick, gas-impermiable wadding and a choke that actually catches the wadding. Slowly bleed the gas off into a suppressor or something after that.

Only trick would be getting the wadding out of the choke after each shot.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

K
  • Locked
Coming Soon to a Russian Sniper Team Near You..
Replies
8
Views
884
Art Eatman
A
D
  • Locked
Russian TV Shows Off Range Of Security Forces Silent Weapons
Replies
6
Views
2K
Triad
T
J
  • Locked
What is a Cartridge Adapter?
2
Replies
25
Views
4K
gunnerh
gunnerh
D
  • Locked
Strange physics question... (gun related, but kinda long)
2
Replies
48
Views
3K
RJ357
R
B
  • Locked
How do the Russian's do it?
Replies
19
Views
1K
Ben Shepherd
B
Back
Top