S&B Short Dot vs. Leupold Mark 4 MR/T and others

[trbon8r]

I've been looking at scopes for my M1A. One day I'd like to take a training class with this rifle, so I need an optic that can handle everything from low light shooting, close range, to mid range 400-500 yard work. I might even like to try some 3 gun shooting as well. I like ACOGs, but they are out since in my opinion they sit way too high on an M1A.

I've been looking at the Leupold Mark 4 MR/T 1.5 X 5 which seems to sell for around $850.

http://www.swfa.com/pc-3479-311-leupold-15-5x20-mark-4-mrt-30mm-riflescope.aspx

I've also been looking at the Schmidt and Bender Short Dot 1.1 X 4. The Schmidt and Bender gets rave reviews, but I haven't heard much about the Leupold? How does the Leupold with SPR reticle stack up against the mega buck Short Dot at less than half the price?

What about U.S. Optics? The SN4 looks interesting, and goes for around $1300 with lit reticle.

http://www.usoptics.com/sub_pages/scope_model.php?recordID=4

I'm just trying to find the best balance of performance vs. cost. I'd rather not fork over $2200 for the Schmidt and Bender unless it is vastly superior to the others.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The last Leupold 1.5-5.5x I looked at did not have illumination that was bright enough it could be used in the day. The Short Dot has a single point illuminated at the center of the cross hairs to help for fast acquistion in up-close shooting.

I like the Short Dot better; but I don't know if I would call it vastly superior. It has a lot of nice features and Schmidty & Bender builds a better scope IMO. It is like most gun-related stuff though, there is a point where you have to pay a lot of money to get incremental gains in performance.

I'd also take a look at the Nightforce 1-4x as well.

 

[trbon8r]

Bartholomew. Thanks for the info.

If in fact the Leupold's illumination isn't usable during the day, that rules it out since for me the whole point of having the lit reticle is for fast close in shooting. Does the lit reticle feature of the Nightforce work during the day?

What about battery life? I know the Schmidt and Bender is only rated for 100 hours. You would think for over 2 grand S&B could at least put some sort of battery technology in their scopes that would at least equal a 400 dollar Aimpoint!

I dont' see any info on the corresponding websites regarding battery life for the Nightforce?

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I've used the Nightforce FC-2 reticle during the day and had no problems with it; but I've read others complain that in bright sunlight it washes out to black. It was sunny the day I was using it, so I am not sure how much brighter it needs to be or whether it may just be an eyesight issue. Don't recall what the battery life on it was but it was more in the Short Dot neighborhood than the Aimpoint.

On the Leupold, the illumination also illuminates the reticle, so I don't think it stands out as well as the dot in the center to begin with. Still, the 1.5-5x is nice and is popular in 3-gun, so it can't be all bad. Personal taste accounts for a lot in optics. I know some guys who love the CQT for the same reasons that I dislike it.

 

[Chris Rhines]

I really like the Nightforce 1-4x. Apparently so do some other shooters - according to the Nightforce rep at the SHOT Show, the AMU just picked up a bunch of their 1-4x scopes for their 3-gun team. The dot is totally usable in bright light.

The S&B Short Dot, well, I dunno. I'm a scope snob and I have no problem paying to support my optics habit, but I just can't figure out what capabilities the $2000+ price tag buys me.

Another one to look at would be the Meopta 1-4x. It lacks only the range holdover reticle features of the Nightforce and S&B, has a daylight-compatable lit reticle, and costs under $600 if you shop around.

- Chris

 

[ForeverArmed]

What about U.S. Optics? The SN4 looks interesting, and goes for around $1300 with lit reticle.

I don't have a scope by U.S. Optics, but I've heard people rave about their quality and ruggedness. One person said that U.S. Optics glass is so clear, it makes Leupold glass seem dirty in comparison.

 

[Zak Smith]

Of those scopes, the Short Dot is the clear winner. It can true act as a 1x Aimpoint, or as a 4x ACOG (at more than the cost of those two together). Having bright day-light visible illumination and close to true 1x low-end magnification is critical to close-range speed. And having reticle features for bullet drop at long-range is critical for that application.

The SN4 has no advantages over the Short Dot, and it's big and heavy to boot.

 

[trbon8r]

Thanks everyone for the info.

I was just looking at the IOR Valdada line of scopes, specifically the 1.1 X 4 CQB scope. Does anyone have experience with this model? Does the reticle light up bright enough to be used during the day for quick point shooting? How's the battery life?

Is a lit reticle during daylight very useful in 3 gun competition?

I was hoping this scope might be a good lower priced option than the S&B. The more I think about it I just can't spend S&B money so I need to find a cheaper alternative.

 

[trbon8r]

Well I got a great deal on a Leupold 1.5 X 5 MR/T with SPR reticle and decided to go for it. For $750 new in the box I couldn't justify the extra cash for the Schmidt and Bender, although I'm sure it's great. With the Leupold I didn't get the lit reticle feature during the day like I wanted, but hopefully it won't be that big a deal. At least the SPR reticle does have an illumination feature during low light.

I looked at IOR, but went with the Leupold since I've owned their scopes before and they are a known quantity to me, and made in America to boot.

The U.S. Optics SN-4 was just too big and bulky looking, but still a nice scope.

Now I just need some good quick detach rings. Looks like it will be ARMS since Larue doesn't make their rings in a low version. Then it's off to practice at the range and find a place to do a 3 gun shoot. I don't expect to win with an M1A, but I do expect to have a great time!

 

[trbon8r]

sorry double post

 

[LoadedDrum]

Another scope to consider at the low end of the price spectrum is the TR21 from Trijicon.

 

[bub8889]

IOR 1.1-4x26

I have the IOR 1.1-4x26 CRT. The CQB reticule is very nice for quick target take up. The ring surrounding the center dot is thicker than usual and draws your eye better than the NF FC-2. My eyes aren't the best and to me the IOR has a big advantage there. I haven't killed a battery yet since I hardly ever use the Illumiation. Everything stands out clearly in sunlight without the illum., the center dot may washout but the thick center ring keeps your eye centered so it doesn't hurt much unless you need pinpoint accuracy.

I have several IOR scopes and love every1. They don't get much US recoginition but IMHO they are the best priced scopes on the market. They don't have the options that NF, SB, US optics or luepold have but what they have works. They're tough and rugged and use the same glass as Leica and Zeiss and SB or considerably less $$$