I just aquired a S&W 32-20 revolver that dates between 1902 and 1905 according to SN. I called S&W they said the dates above are accurate. The gun appears in good condition externally but has some (Flash Burning) on the frame between the barrel and cylinder. I was advised not to fire the gun by a gun smith and by S&W. I have serveral boxes of old ammo for this gun. Any one out there have an idea what it's collector value may be?
S&w 32-20
- Thread starter russellt
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W.E.G.
Member
Have any photos?
What is the condition of the bore and the cylinders?
If its condition is typical of those guns, value is probably between $200 (crusty condition) to $800 (pretty darn good condition).
What is the condition of the bore and the cylinders?
If its condition is typical of those guns, value is probably between $200 (crusty condition) to $800 (pretty darn good condition).
Radagast
Member
Flame cutting of the top strap is not unknown with S&Ws, usually with the magnum rounds. It tends to be self limiting and I've not heard of a gun that was put out of service by it.
S&W will not advise firing a weapon that is in degraded condition, especially over the phone. Their policy is pretty much 'send it back for us to check'. But they don't work on guns that old, the spare parts don't exist.
The .32-20 came in two flavors back in the day, high speed jacketed for rifle and lead standard velocity for pistol. Hi-Speed ammo often resulted in bulged barrels when shot through the S&W, I suggest you check to see if there is a ring in the barrel. A lot of rifle only ammo may have caused the flame cutting.
I suggest you post some photos with good resolution of the effected area. Plenty of knowledgeable people on here who can give you a third or fourth opinion.
S&W will not advise firing a weapon that is in degraded condition, especially over the phone. Their policy is pretty much 'send it back for us to check'. But they don't work on guns that old, the spare parts don't exist.
The .32-20 came in two flavors back in the day, high speed jacketed for rifle and lead standard velocity for pistol. Hi-Speed ammo often resulted in bulged barrels when shot through the S&W, I suggest you check to see if there is a ring in the barrel. A lot of rifle only ammo may have caused the flame cutting.
I suggest you post some photos with good resolution of the effected area. Plenty of knowledgeable people on here who can give you a third or fourth opinion.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I also seriously doubt any amount of flame cutting that may have occurred on an early 32-20 WCF would render the gun unsafe to shoot with modern 32-20 WCF ammo.
It is all down-loaded now days to black powder pressure.
Which would probably be safe without the back-strap!!
rc
It is all down-loaded now days to black powder pressure.
Which would probably be safe without the back-strap!!
rc
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Yes, I meant top-strap.
It was a Typo - Senior moment - Brain Fart, what ever you want to call it?
Back-straps don't often get flame cutting, if all else goes well!!
rc
It was a Typo - Senior moment - Brain Fart, what ever you want to call it?
Back-straps don't often get flame cutting, if all else goes well!!
rc
witchhunter
Member
Mmmm back straps sound good to me too RC. I love my 4th change in 32/20. a blast to shoot with absolutely no recoil! Can't imagine one could cut into the topstrap, it's not that hot of a cartridge.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Agreed!
I'd like to see some good photo's of this alleged 32-20 top-strap flame cutting that rendered the gun unsafe!!
rc
I'd like to see some good photo's of this alleged 32-20 top-strap flame cutting that rendered the gun unsafe!!
rc
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
IMO: That is not flame cutting shown in your first photo.
It is a scallop put in the frame by a S&W milling machine.
The gun was made that way.
Flame cutting shows itself as a straight narrow line, directly in line with the barrel / cylinder gap.
The gun looks to be in nearly perfect condition.
Shoot it!
rc
It is a scallop put in the frame by a S&W milling machine.
The gun was made that way.
Flame cutting shows itself as a straight narrow line, directly in line with the barrel / cylinder gap.
The gun looks to be in nearly perfect condition.
Shoot it!
rc
W.E.G.
Member
The feature I believe you mistook as "flame cutting" is actually a deliberate element of the design.
Its called a fouling cup.
The fouling cup is a place for black powder residue to accumulate so that the cylinder wont bind-up on the fouling. You may have noticed that older black-powder revolvers have no top strap whatsoever. No fouling can accumulate on a part that is not there.
I can see that the exterior of the cylinder of your gun is badly pitted. I will assume that the interior of the cylinders and bore show similar damage.
The value of your gun is $225 - $375.
Its called a fouling cup.
The fouling cup is a place for black powder residue to accumulate so that the cylinder wont bind-up on the fouling. You may have noticed that older black-powder revolvers have no top strap whatsoever. No fouling can accumulate on a part that is not there.
I can see that the exterior of the cylinder of your gun is badly pitted. I will assume that the interior of the cylinders and bore show similar damage.
The value of your gun is $225 - $375.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Are we looking at the same set of pictures??
I can see no evidence of bad pitting on the cylinder.
Maybe a little finish wear around the sharp edges.
But sure no bad pitting I can see.
PS:
Make 100% sure none of the old ammo contains jacketed bullets.
Or 'Rifle Only' or 'Hi-Speed' something to that effect printed on the boxes.
If it does, it is Hi-Speed rifle ammo, and should not be shot in a revolver.
rc
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Thanks folks, there is no pitting on the cylinder one spot just a little rust mark but the inside of the cylinder is great as is the barrel. I really want to shoot this gun but didn't want to hurt the gun and especially ME! Any ideas as the actual date this was made and mabey some interesting history ot this gun?
W.E.G.
Member
crop, size, contrast and brightness adjusted
OP question asked about value.
Pitting reduces value.
A lot.
OP question asked about value.
Pitting reduces value.
A lot.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Serial #75933 would be a .32-20 Hand Ejector Forth Change.
Made between 1915 (65701) to 1940 (144684).
I'd guess yours was made 1918-19 or so, probably right after WWI ended and they got back to business making commercial revolvers again.
rc
Made between 1915 (65701) to 1940 (144684).
I'd guess yours was made 1918-19 or so, probably right after WWI ended and they got back to business making commercial revolvers again.
rc
Radagast
Member
Heat treatment of cylinders began in May 1919 at serial number 81287. So 1918 seems likely.
Lack of heat treatment means the warning against rifle only loads is important. Any current ammo from a major manufacturer will be downloaded to be safe to shoot.
Lack of heat treatment means the warning against rifle only loads is important. Any current ammo from a major manufacturer will be downloaded to be safe to shoot.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
It wasn't the lack of heat treatment that caused the problems with the Hi-Speed 32-20 WCF rifle ammo back then.
The problem was the jacketed rifle bullets, combined with the relatively new and unproven slow burning smokeless powder they used in them to get the high velocity in a rifle.
Sometimes, the rifle powder failed to fully ignite in a revolver cylinder, the pressure fizzled out the cylinder gap, and the jacketed bullet stuck in the bore.
The next shoot left a ring in the barrel from the bore obstruction.
Far as I know, there was never a problem with them blowing un-heat treated cylinders due to excess pressure or anything.
In fact, it was not enough pressure that caused all the problems.
rc
The problem was the jacketed rifle bullets, combined with the relatively new and unproven slow burning smokeless powder they used in them to get the high velocity in a rifle.
Sometimes, the rifle powder failed to fully ignite in a revolver cylinder, the pressure fizzled out the cylinder gap, and the jacketed bullet stuck in the bore.
The next shoot left a ring in the barrel from the bore obstruction.
Far as I know, there was never a problem with them blowing un-heat treated cylinders due to excess pressure or anything.
In fact, it was not enough pressure that caused all the problems.
rc
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Radagast
Member
Valid point RC. I was carrying over the real issue with bulged .38 Special chambers to the .32-20. Which doesn't work as the .32-20 has thicker cylinder walls and lower operating pressure.
russelt: Listen to rcmodel, not me.
russelt: Listen to rcmodel, not me.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
For what it's worth, I have a S&W 32-20 Hand Ejector SN 725XX that shipped in November of 1916.
I agree, the cut out on the underside of the topstrap is a recess put there for Black Powder fouling.
If you want better identification of your 32-20 Hand Ejector you need to provide better photos, that are in better focus.
For what it's worth, I have a S&W 32-20 Hand Ejector SN 725XX that shipped in November of 1916.
I agree, the cut out on the underside of the topstrap is a recess put there for Black Powder fouling.
If you want better identification of your 32-20 Hand Ejector you need to provide better photos, that are in better focus.
Twmaster
Member
That's a nice pistol you have there mister. I have one of it's younger brothers built in 1922 or there-abouts. Also in 32WCF.
I wish Buffalo Bore would load .32-20.
I'd get a custom cylinder and barrel made for my Dan Wesson just to shoot it.
Or, maybe for my 586, just to be really different.
I love .32-20. The first centerfire gun I ever fired was my grandfather's 1922 (IIRC)
Colt Police Positive Special. It was love at first shot.
I'd get a custom cylinder and barrel made for my Dan Wesson just to shoot it.
Or, maybe for my 586, just to be really different.
I love .32-20. The first centerfire gun I ever fired was my grandfather's 1922 (IIRC)
Colt Police Positive Special. It was love at first shot.
Thanks folks, for all your input, I've been messing about with guns since I was 9 years of age, have collected a few, swapped many but don't know much about collecting, your knowlegable information is very helpful. I will start another thread regarding some very old shotguns I have and will appreciate you input. Thanks
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