S & W 32 long CTG??

[Old Fuff]

The stocks weren't always numbered. I recently obtained a .38 Double Action / 5th Model, and neither the barrel or stocks were numbered, although both were obviously original to the gun.

With age, those black hard rubber stocks often turn brown. Sometimes soaking them in mineral oil will turn them black again. You can obtain identical modern replacements from: www.e-gunparts.com

I think what you are seeing on the revolvers interior may be a combination of black powder fouling and dried grease. It could also include some traces of Carbona or Charcoal Blue. Try scrubbing it off in a bath of carborator or brake cleaner, but be sure to oil everything down afterwards or it will rust. Also wear rubber gloves. Bore solvent is designed to desolve lead, copper and sometimes nickel. It generally won't touch the gunk found in the interior of 19th and early 20th century guns.

 

[TBirdGuy]

Stocks cleaned up ok in water with a light scrubing. Dried them off well and then oiled the threading, cleaned off the excess. Looks like new except for a small place that is chipped out on the bottom.
I thought about brake fluid for the metal. I had used it before to clean paint off of plastic without harming the plastic. Hadn't thought about brake cleaner. I will try that.
Thanks.

 

[otteray]

I have a Model of 1905, 3rd Change, 32WCF, serial No. 65xxx in very good (95+% original bluing, excellent rifling) that pre-dates the heat treated cylinder that can handle hotter loads.
Any good cast lead load data to work up to, and am I safe with the starting loads given in the manuals (Lyman, Lee.)

Suitable factory loads aren't too impressive in the accuracy department.

 

[Old Fuff]

Current .32-20 loads listed in the various handbooks are safe in good-quality revolvers (of which the Smith & Wesson is obviously one) unless stated otherwise. Avoid load intended to be used in the Tompson-Center Contender. You can also use any data for the .32 S&W Long, that will produce slightly less velocity and pressure in the .32-20 case. You will do your barrel a favor if you stick to cast or swaged lead bullets, but you can use any .312" bulet offered for the .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R Magnum .32 ACP, and of course .32-20.

 

[diveblair]

Another one...

Hey gents,

I just stumbled on to your website when I googled the gun I inherited.

I have a .32 Smith & Wesson CTG revolver with a 3" barrel. It is nickle with a flat butt. On the butt is 7467...same thing on bottom of barrel. The cylinder swings out, and the serial number inside is 10921.

It says its pat'd Oct 24 1899. Aug 14 1900, Oct 8 1901 on top of barrel.

Here's the odd thing to me...it's a seven shot cylinder.

Any info or valuation would be great. Thanks.

 

[Old Fuff]

It's more odd then you know.

Smith & Wesson didn't make a 7-shot .32 revolver prior to World War Two. The serial number on the butt and barrel you posted would suggest a First Model .32 Hand Ejector made between 1898 and 1900. The number on the frame inside the yoke cut is an assembly number. If its a Smith & Wesson it should have 6 chambers. To go any further I think we need a picture.

 

[diveblair]

Pics

Thanks for the quick response.

I'll see if I can get my pics going.

 

[Old Fuff]

Well I have some good news and bad... I think.

As I said before, a .32 Hand Ejector with 7 chambers is unknown, but I note that in your picture there are indeed 7 holes in the cylinder

I also noticed that the frame has a raised area by the rear sight.

Now Smith & Wesson did make a little revolver with a frame like that, and the cylinder did have 7 chambers, just like your picture. But it was a .22 Long (not Long Rifle).

It was built on Smith & Wesson little known "M" frame, there were 3 models, and it was commonly called the "LadySmith."

All first Model, and most Second Model revolvers had the following patent dates stamped on top of the barrel:

Oct. 24, 1899 August 14, 1900 Oct 8, 1901

Barrel Lengths were 3 and 3 1/2 inches

Left side of the barrel is marked * 22 Smith & Wesson ctg.*

The Second Model had a rounded butt with a flat bottom. The stocks were usually Black Hard-Rubber. Finish was blue or nickel plate. They were made between 1906 to 1910 in a serial number range running from 4,576 to 13,950.
so your gun was probably made in 1906 or '07.

Oh, and in similar shape there are worth a lot more then a .32 Hand Ejector.

I hope you won't be too disapointed...

 

[diveblair]

Wow...thanks!

Yup. I guess that could be a 22. But it sure looks more like a 32 on the barrel. I could not get a decent pic of the numbers to show you. A lot of good info though...thanks!

My father had a lot of guns in his day. He got rid of all of them except for this one. I never even knew about it until after he died. It's in need of a good cleaning, and some TLC.

Any idea of the worth?

Thanks.

 

[Old Fuff]

The original LadySmith revolvers have always been a collector's pet, with values to match. The latest information I have is in the recently released 3rd edition of Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson.

They show the following for a 2nd. Model:

As New: $2,500
Exc: 1,200
Fine: 850
Very Good: 550
Good: 400
Fair: 250
Poor: 125

I can't tell much about the overall condition of your revolver the the picture you posted. but I think from what I can see it would rate somewhere in the good to very good range.

 

[Shrike6]

.32 S&W long

OK, my turn. I'm new here and signed up because I found an old revolver my uncle gave to my mom years ago. It looks like some others mentioned here before. Rear gutter sights, front leaf, 6 shot. Marked .32 long ctg on barrel.
On the bottom of the butt the serial # is 245204 with a star after the number.
Under the barrel, on the flat space, there is a square mark. On the frame side of the hinge, 48952. On the cylinder side of the hinge 89507.
On the back of the cylinder, 413102. On top of the barrell are the patent dates, Oct.8,1901, Dec.17,1901,Feb.6,1906,Sept.14,1907,Dec.29,1914.
I didn't measure the barrel, but it looks like 3.5-4".
Trigger pull feels pretty heavy, but it breaks clean. Very good condition overall with walnut grips, round bottom. It's not perfectly clean yet, but the rifeling looks somewhat worn.
Question: what model and vintage? Is this worth trying to clean up and shoot? I may give it to my wife if the recoil isn't too bad, after having the trigger worked on.
Thanks for all the great info I've gotten here so far!

 

[Old Fuff]

You apparently have a Smith & Wesson .32 Hand Ejector Model of 1903, 5th chg. These were made between 1910 and 1917 within a serial number range running from 102,501 to 263,000. Barrel lengths were 3 1/4", 4 1/4" or 6" measured from the cylinder face to the end of the muzzle.

The star indicates factory refinishing or other work. The number on the butt (245,2xx), the back of the cylinder, and the bottom flat on the barrel above the ejector rod should match. It would appear that the cylinder, if numbered 413,102 is from an earlier gun, and the star on the butt might indicate that it was fitted to your present gun at the S&W factory, although this would be unsusal. Walnut grips would also be unusual if factory original, because black hard rubber molded ones were standard.

The number on the hinge (yoke) and frame should match, where in this case they are different. If everything fits, and the revolver locks up tight with no end shake this probably doesn't matter. Value is hard to say, but I doubt that it would exceed $275.00 from the description.

I would clean it up, it uses .32 S&W Long cartridges and the recoil is mild. Experience tells me that if your wife shoots it she will likely file a claim on it.

As for trigger pull work. it may do better after the lockwork is cleaned up, but be careful - parts such as mainsprings, hammers and triggers are next to impossible to find, and very expensive when you do.

 

[Shrike6]

Thanks for your detailed info!
Now to find a gunsmith to clean it up and look it over.

 

[draksia]

I was wondering if you guys could help me out.

I inheritted a S&W revoler from my grandfather.

It says 32-20 GTC on the barrel
patten dates are oct.08.1 dec.17.01 feb.6.06 sept.14.09 dec.29.14

The serial is 124xxx

I am just looking for some more info.

Thanks

 

[captain2105]

S&W 32

Hey fellas,

What a great source of information!

I ran across an old S&W .32 while cleaning out my father-in-laws home. From reading this post, I believe it is a .32 hand-ejector model of 1903 fifth change.

It has 32 long ctg on the LH of the barrel, pat of mar 27, 94;Aug 4, 96; Dec 22, 96;Oct 8, 01; Dec 17, 01; Feb 5, 06; and Sept 14, 09 on the top of the barrel, has the S&W emblem on the RH frame and the number 222548 on the bottom of the grip and back of cyl. It is a 6 shot cyl and a 3 1/4" barrel.

Any estimate on what year it may have been produced?

It has oversized Pachmayr grips. I tried the wood grips off my newer (1980's) S&W J-frame .38, they fit, but are about 1/4" too long. What grips will fit?

Any indication on what it may be worth? What affect will non-OE grips make?

It's finish is in pretty poor condition with approx 30-40% of the area covered in light to med rust. What effect would it have on value to clean and reblue?

Thank you,
Keith

 

[Old Fuff]

captain2105:

Excellent dscription...!

You are right, you do have a model 1903 hand ejector, 5th change. The serial number (222,5xx) indicates it was made sometime around 1914 To get it closer you'll have to pay S&W to research their records. The reasonable fee is $30.00 because give the age of the revolver a lot of work can be involved. Unfortunately the condition substantially reduces the value, although if the bore and chambers are not rusted, and it is in good mechanical condition that would help. I'll make an estimate of between $175.00 to $200.00.

The original stocks were black hard rubber, and finding an original set that aren't damaged is difficult and usually expensive. Brownells (www.brownells.com) carry modern plastic reproductions. An easier way is to find a set of modern J-frame stocks that cover the lower part of the frame, as they are about 1/8" longer then the I-frame that you have. Regular J-frame stocks will fit if they are shortened.

A professional refinishing job would likely run around $100.00 to $175.00 and you want someone who knows what they are doing because a poor polishing job would ruin the gun. If I had it I wouldn't consider getting it reblued until I had tried rubbing it out with 0000 steel wool dipped in something like CLP. Elbow grease can remove a lot of rust without damaging the original finish...

 

[Old Fuff]

draksia:

Be sure you are listing the number on the butt, and not one on the frame behind the yoke. If the number is on the butt you have a .32-20 Hand Ejector, Model of 1905, 4th Change. The 4th. Change revolvers were made between 1914 and 1940, with production ending at No. 144,684. I estimate your revolver dates from the middle/latter 1930's, and was built on S&W's K-frame.

The 1905 Hand Ejectors were also known as the Military & Police model, that in 1957 became the Model 10, but chambering in .32-20 was not resumed after World War Two.

 

[captain2105]

Old fuff,

Thank you for the reply.

I'll try buffing it out, most does not appear to be too deep.

I also read on this post that some of the older barrels will not tolerate copper jacketed bullets. Does that apply to this vintage?

Thanks,
Keith

 

[Old Fuff]

I also read on this post that some of the older barrels will not tolerate copper jacketed bullets. Does that apply to this vintage?

No, but the .32 S&W Long cartridge that it's chambered to use is only available with lead bullets, and that's been the case since the 19th century.

Perhaps someone was thinking of the .32 ACP that is usually loaded with full-jacketed bullet, or the .32 H&R Magnum that does come with jacketed bullets, but won't fit in your revolver. Last but not least, there is the .32-20 (.32WCF) but it also won't fit in your gun.

While they won't hurt the barrel, I would stick to lead bullets. I think the only way to do otherwise would be to load your own, or perhaps buy ammunition from a speciality manufacturer.

 

[scbair]

Old Fuff, as far as "major" manufacturers of ammo, you're probably correct (OK, you ARE correct, to the best of my knowledge). However, Georgia Arms does produce & sell some JHP .32 S&W Long ammo (I have some with 100 grainers, and some that, as I recall, use the 85 gr. JHP).

I really doubt any of it is loaded to a velocity that will produce expansion; it was just cheaper than Remington factory loads for my old Model 30 . . .

 

[Old Fuff]

I know....

I think the only way to do otherwise would be to load your own, or perhaps buy ammunition from a speciality manufacturer.

I just didn't direct captain2105 in that direction....

 

[CraigHartung]

Smith & Wesson 32 -20 Winchester

I would like to join in discussion as I have a

Left side of barrel: < 32 Winchester OTG >
Top of barrel: Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass US PAT'D March 27, 1894 May 21, 1896 August 4, 1896 December 22, 1898 December 1, 1901 February 6, 1906 September 14, 1909
Serial number under swing out cylinder axle and butt 51265
Blue and 6” barrel
I am assuming this is a 1903 3rd change, a 32 - 20, and can use 32 -20 and 32 long lead ammunition. Operation is excelent, appearence condition is good?

Any help?

 

[Old Fuff]

CraigHartung:

We have some problems here.

If the barrel is marked, "32 Winchester CTG" it was made on Smith & Wesson's K-frame platform (also known as the Military & Police model).

The serial number should be marked on the: (1) butt, (2) back of the cylinder, and (3) a flat on the bottom of the barrel. above the ejector rod. The number on the frame behind the axle (called the "yoke" at S&W) is an assembly number, and I'd expect it would be different then the serial number.

If the serial number is 51,265, the revolver would be a .32-20 Hand Ejector Model of 1905; 3rd. Change. The 3rd. Change series were serial numbered between 45,201 to 65,700, and made from 1909 to 1915.

The .32-20 (.32 WCF) and .32 S&W Long are different cartridges, and not interchangeable - the .32-20 being the more powerful of the two.

Lead bulleted ammunition should be O.K., and I would particularly recommend .32-20 "cowboy loads" that are downloaded for the Cowboy Action Shooting game. A number of manufacturers make these and your dealer should have no problems ordering some.

Because of the time frame within when it was made, you have an exceptionally fine revolver. The internal workmanship is like a Swiss watch.

 

[CraigHartung]

32 - 20 S & W 1905 3rd

Thank you. Some clarifications: The number on the yoke and butt are both 51265 the same. I can not find a number on the cylinder.

There must be a stamping mistake on the barrel as the naked eye and under a magnifying glass it is "OTG"?

 

[CraigHartung]

32 - 20 S & W

Sorry third number on cylinder and it is 51263 as are the other two numbers. Used a magnifying glass.