S&W 41 .22 OR Upgrade Ruger Mark IV .22 ???

[Redcoat3340]

I've been looking for a S&W model 41 for a while. My local gun store may have one at $995. Not cheap, but it might be reasonable for this gun (at least from looking at Gunbroker.)

While I've been looking, however, I purchased a Ruger Mark IV Target as I didn't really have a good .22. I like it. Put some Hogue grips on it (not "best" but better than stock) and am waiting for FO front sight and two more mags.

Here's my question:

Rather than spend a grand for the Smith, what would I have to do to the Mark IV to get it close to the 41 in terms trigger and overall performance??

I figure at least some Altmont grips? (Or are there better target grips?); a new trigger (Volquartsen Pistol Cometition kit at $170 or Tandemkross at $144.99??). A compensator at $59.99??

Anything else? Sights? (If I go with red dot, which one??)

While I'm thinking about getting back into competition, maybe a postal league, my eyes are six decades old and I ain't as steady on my pins as I used to be. But I hate not shooting well and maybe some upgrades might help cheat the aging process.

Wadda ya think? (Cost of the trigger kit + grips + compensator = a lot less than a grand for a used 41, about $700 less...and even if you add in what I paid for the Mk IV, it still a lot less...and it's a new gun. No?)

 

[ClemY]

I confess I am a bit of a trigger sob; I just won’t tolerate bad triggers. I have both a S&W 41 and a MK III 22/45. The only thing I didn’t like about the 41 was the barrel; I cut a 7” barrel to 5” to make my own Sporter barrel, because they are long out of production. The 41 now weighs 35 oz. and feels perfect to me. It didn’t really need any trigger work.

The 22/45 is about 34 oz. and balances better than I anticipated, what with the plastic frame. I thought it would be top heavy, but if feels good. The problem for me was the trigger. Volquartsen makes trigger parts for the Rugers. I prefer to go with a MK II hammer and sear, with a standard bushing, rather than go with the special bushing and MK III components. The end result is a good trigger. I also put on thicker 1911 checkered wood grips I like and installed an extended mag release. It also has a VQ rear sight. These things are just personal preference changes. You probably will prefer something different, but since you already have the MK IV 22/45 you might consider modifying it, if necessary, to you preferences and seeing if it is good enough for you, before you invest $1k in the 41. You may end up with both, which is not a bad thing, either.

 

[MrBorland]

Well, whether a Model 41 is worth it to you is purely personal.

I can say that I put a VQ trigger group in my MkIII and the trigger is superb and it shoots well. I'm not a bullseye shooter, so I shot 2-handed and put most rounds in the 10-ring at 25 yards with Walmart Federal Standard velocity ammo. With good target ammo and a practice, I'm betting a VQ-equipped MkII/III/IV could get one to the master bullseye classification before having to upgrade to something better.

 

[JONWILL]

Stick with the Ruger and put in a Volquartsen trigger. I did it myself. Not a hard job.

It outshoots me

 

[ColtPythonElite]

My shooting buddy has two 41's and three barrels. We have 25 yard bench shot his guns against my 10" Rugers that have had nothing but a home trigger job. We have done it with and without optics. Both shoot nice tight groups and neither consistently outperforms the other.....The difference is my Rugers will feed about any ammo. His 41s are finicky.

 

[Slamfire]

I have been shooting this M46, a preference over my M41 or my Ruger MKII in Bullseye competition.



Not there yet, but working on it!



I am of the opinion that the ergonomics and trigger of the M46/41 are better, the recoil impluse less, and I shoot higher scores because of that. Regardless of what I think is causing the better scores, I get better scores, and that is the bottom line.

My Ruger MKII is a very accurate and reliable pistol. Nothing wrong with it. I think the M41 is a better target pistol.

Then there are guys shooting these:



Once you price a Hammerli, a M41 seems a bargain! The guy with the Hammerli is very good, just do this, once:

 

[SGW Gunsmith]

My shooting buddy has two 41's and three barrels. We have 25 yard bench shot his guns against my 10" Rugers that have had nothing but a home trigger job. We have done it with and without optics. Both shoot nice tight groups and neither consistently outperforms the other.....The difference is my Rugers will feed about any ammo. His 41s are finicky.

I did a trade with a customer who had this Model 41 sent back to S&W 3 times until if finally came back working satisfactorily. The guy did NOT like the trigger on this pistol, so we did a deal whereby he wanted a Ruger Mark II Competition Target with 6 7/8 inch barrel. The guy has some serious issues with arthritis in his fingers and wanted a bit heavier trigger.
Mentioning the Model 41, especially this one, being finicky with some .22 rimfire rounds, this one is also. I have a series of recoil springs with various weight ratings that run from 8 to 10 pounds, depending on the velocities involved with what I'm shooting out of this pistol:

 

[tipoc]

This is not an either or proposition. Upgrade the Ruger as you can and as you like. Get a 41 when you can. It's a very poor person who has only one .22 pistol.

 

[Walkalong]

Another one to consider is the Trailside, they can be found quite reasonable. Points as well as y 41 for me, very accurate, shoots Fed Auto Match well where my 41 doesn't, but hey, .22s can be finicky as far as accuracy and brand.

 

[bannockburn]

Walkalong

I have a Trailside that can be very accurate (even with fixed sights), with the right ammo. Has a definite preference for Wolf Match Target and CCI Standard Velocity. It also possesses one of the lightest triggers I have ever encountered on any gun.

 

[sparkyv]

Note comments above from those who have done trigger jobs to a MKIV. They mostly say that the results are "OK". I've had the same experience with my Hunter. If I had $1k for a .22, I'd get the M41. Note that most likely you will have to feed her a rich diet to keep her running reliably and accurately.

 

[Slamfire]

Note comments above from those who have done trigger jobs to a MKIV. They mostly say that the results are "OK". I've had the same experience with my Hunter. If I had $1k for a .22, I'd get the M41. Note that most likely you will have to feed her a rich diet to keep her running reliably and accurately.

I see a lot of CCI SV being shot downrange in target 22lr's. The 50 yard slow fire target has a four inch ten ring, which incidentally, is the same size for the 25 yard rapid/timed fire target. Really crappy 22lr will hold 4 inches at 50 yards. I am of the opinion that rifle accuracy, and I shoot small bore prone, is just not necessary for a 22 lr target pistol. And if accuracy takes away from function reliability, it is not worth it.

One of my Smallbore prone rifles


And a 50 yard target I shot with it, prone


These were made by good small bore prone shooters




I don't think CCI standard velocity will hold the ten ring of a small bore prone target. I did shoot twenty rounds at the request of a Match Director on the 50 yard target, and the stuff would basically hold the nine ring, most in the ten, widely scattered. I do not recall any eights, but, I am sure if I shot enough, I would have seen one. That is not good enough for rifle competition. But it works just fine in a target pistol.

Of course you want accuracy, but function reliability is of greater importance. If your pistol jams, stove pipes, does not go bang, you have to shoot alibi's in Bullseye Competition, and you only get one per match. And if you get an alibi, you find, your score is wrecked anyway. Alibi's ruin scores. If your 22lr ammunition will hold half the ten ring at 50 yards, you will always clean the target. Seldom however, does anyone clean the target at 50 yards. Bullseye pistol is incredibly hard. In this sport, the shooter is the greatest source of inaccuracy. In fact, that is true for any sport where the human holds the gun. But in this one, it is incredibly hard to shoot well.

 

[Olympus]

Smith 41 or High Standard Victor (Hamden-made), everything else just doesn't compare.

 

[Slamfire]

High Standard Victor (Hamden-made), everything else just doesn't compare.

Anyone considering a High Standard should look at the cost of magazines. Lots of old timers love their High Standards, but replacement magazines are running around $75.00 apiece. I think, by weight, they are worth more than silver ingots.

 

[Olympus]

Anyone considering a High Standard should look at the cost of magazines. Lots of old timers love their High Standards, but replacement magazines are running around $75.00 apiece. I think, by weight, they are worth more than silver ingots.

I’m in my 30s and I love my High Standards. I bought several mags for $40-$50 which really isn’t all that bad considering prices for some current manufacturers mags.

 

[bannockburn]

Olympus

Way back when I knew a couple of guys who regularly competed with High Standard .22s and they kept careful track of each and every magazine they had and what gun they went with. Most were limited to practice only (and were so marked), as just a few could be counted on to perform perfectly during a match. They treated those magazines as though they were worth their weight in gold!

 

[Jim Watson]

I cheerfully paid $59 apiece for three High Standard Citation Military "A" magazines from the rump organization dba Interarms TX. Those and the two good originals get me through a Steel Challenge match. But the originals are best. I tore up a gun show magazine trying to get it to work. A friend's HS loves the junky clips.

Back when we had a Ransom Rest, it would shoot into an inch at 50 yards with a lucky lot of T22.

 

[Saleen322]

I would recommend the Ruger. I did a trigger job on this one and put on a target grip. This barrel just shoots exceptionally well and sometimes we just luck out. I had model 41s and they are just in between an informal target pistol and not quite a top end pistol. They never shot bad just were never exceptional. I do like High Standards and they offer good value for the price. Someone mentioned magazines and High Standard magazines are readily available (mostly online) for a fair price.

 

[ClemY]

One of the features of the Rugers is, because of the parts support, they are, along with the 1911, AR-15, 10/22, etc., Erector Set guns, capable of being set up in a very wide range of configurations. Unfortunately they are also like potato chips, nearly impossible to stop with just one.

 

[Olympus]

Olympus

Way back when I knew a couple of guys who regularly competed with High Standard .22s and they kept careful track of each and every magazine they had and what gun they went with. Most were limited to practice only (and were so marked), as just a few could be counted on to perform perfectly during a match. They treated those magazines as though they were worth their weight in gold!

I can believe that. I don’t compete, but I take extra special care of my HS mags also. Keep them clean and oiled and regularly inspect the feed lips.