S&W.45 Colt Mountain Gun & H110

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jski

jski

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I went to Hodgdon's data website and noticed that for Ruger & Freedom Arms .45 Colts there is an H110 recommendation. If I go to the "others" .45 Colt data, there's no data for H110.

Is there a safe H110 load for the Mountain Gun?

The reason I ask is that I reload for the .30 Carbine & .357 Mag and it's easier to stick with H110. At simple matter of convenience. I'm not looking for anything "stiff".
 
I can't find any loads for 45 Colt and magnum type powders either. I'd stay away form a reduced load of H110.
 
jski said:
I went to Hodgdon's data website and noticed that for Ruger & Freedom Arms .45 Colts there is an H110 recommendation. If I go to the "others" .45 Colt data, there's no data for H110.

Is there a safe H110 load for the Mountain Gun?

The reason I ask is that I reload for the .30 Carbine & .357 Mag and it's easier to stick with H110. At simple matter of convenience. I'm not looking for anything "stiff".
Click to expand...

The reason for this is due to the inability to use greatly reduced charge weights with H110/W296 which would be necessary in .45 Colts not having strong frames/cylinders. While you don't state what weight bullet you are using, in checking my Hodgdon 26th Edition manual, they list a starting load of 25.0gr of W296 (same as H110) at 24,600 CUP for a 260 grain bullet, which is a heavy but safe load in your N frame Mountain Gun. Hope that helps.

Don
 
jski said:
I went to Hodgdon's data website and noticed that for Ruger & Freedom Arms .45 Colts there is an H110 recommendation. If I go to the "others" .45 Colt data, there's no data for H110.

Is there a safe H110 load for the Mountain Gun?

The reason I ask is that I reload for the .30 Carbine & .357 Mag and it's easier to stick with H110. At simple matter of convenience. I'm not looking for anything "stiff".
Click to expand...

Sometimes what is safest and most accurate is not convenient. H110/W296 is an excellent powder when used within it's narrow parameters. Most standard .45 Colt loads are not within those parameters, especially when not looking for "stiff" loads. There are a multitude of more appropriate powders that will perform better in that Platform, and no legitimate reason to not go that route. My experience with H110/W296 is that while it really shines when used at the upper end of load recipes, it's consistency/accuracy drops dramatically when used at the lower end of it's legitimate parameters. Buy a pound of an appropriate powder and move on. Unique always worked well for me with both lead and jacketed in .45 Colt.
 
Hodgdon's website is weirdly inconsistent when it comes to H110. You'll note they say magnum primers for H110 only when loading magnum named cartridges but not for cartridges like the Carbine. Best to use a manual instead of that site.
Other sites do have .45 Colt data using H110/W296 with no mention of the firearm at all. However, as mentioned, the bullet weigh matters.
There are several H110, 250 grains plus, cast bullet loads on Reloader's Nest. Most saying Ruger's only, but a cast bullet can't get too fast or it'll lead.
 
H110 is a slow burning volume sensitive powder that requires the pressure of magnum cartridges in handguns and certain other uses like in the .30 carbine or .410 shotgun to burn properly. Reduce the maximum load listed in the manual by more than 3% and you run the risk of a squib and stuck bullet in your barrel. The .45 Colt is a large capacity originally black powder cartridge and the amount of powder needed to fill the volume for H110 puts the cartridge pressure too high to be shot in handguns designed for the 14,000 psi maximum SAAMI standard pressure for the .45 Colt. This makes it an inappropriate powder for anything but high pressure ammo in Rugers and Freedom Arms.
 
Steve C said:
The .45 Colt is a large capacity originally black powder cartridge and the amount of powder needed to fill the volume for H110 puts the cartridge pressure too high to be shot in handguns designed for the 14,000 psi maximum SAAMI standard pressure for the .45 Colt. This makes it an inappropriate powder for anything but high pressure ammo in Rugers and Freedom Arms.
Click to expand...

Steve,

You logic is somewhat flawed, since the Rugers and Freedom Arms revolver are also "designed for the 14,000 psi maximum SAAMI standard pressure for the .45 Colt". The limitation with the .45 Colt is always the platform being used, and while the Rugers and Freedom Arms revolvers will take more pressure than the Smith and Wesson N frame revolvers, it is no slouch and is certainly not limited to 14k psi loads. The same Smith and Wesson N frame revolver chambered in .45 ACP (Model 25-2) is rated by Smith and Wesson to be able to shoot .45 ACP +P ammo for which SAAMI specs are 23k psi/27K CUP. John Linebaugh has done extensive work with the Model 25 in .45 Colt in addition to the Rugers, and he has found the Smith and Wesson N frame revolvers to be well suited to loads such as the starting load of H110/W296 load that I mention in a previous post.

Don
 
As you see, H110/W296 is a poor chloroform standard pressure 45 Colt ammo.

I'm wondering why so many reloaders want to use only one powder to do everything. Most times you end up doing everything but not to its best.

There has to be at least a dozen powders that do well in the 45 Colt but W296/H110 is not one of them. Since you on my have H110 you will need to but a powder suitable for standard pressure 45 Colt loads.

I have used:
Red Dot, Promo, Bullseye, Unique
AA#2, AA#5, Zip
Clays, W231/HP-38, Universal, Trail Boss, HS-6
And probably a few more...

I used a lot of W231 for years until I tried HS-6 and now HS-6 is all I will use. It's very accurate for me and it plays well with lead bullets.
 
FWIW, a "classic" powder for the 45 Colt is Unique. Does pretty much anything you need out of a 45 Colt. Plus it is one good use for that powder.:):)
 
The S&W Mountain Gun was also offered in .44 Magnum. I would expect the .45 Colt version would be up to shooting loads at or below .44 Mag pressures, and I would not be concerned loading for such.

Having said that, I agree with the comments about not trying to stick with one powder for everything. The .45 Colt can be loaded from mild to medium to magnum levels, and there are legitimate purposes for all of them. But you won't get that kind of flexibility using just a single powder.
 
GarrettJ said:
The S&W Mountain Gun was also offered in .44 Magnum. I would expect the .45 Colt version would be up to shooting loads at or below .44 Mag pressures, and I would not be concerned loading for such.
Click to expand...
That is a bad assumption and very bad advice. Just because the same frame is used does not guarantee the same steel is used and the same heat treating is applied to both. In fact it is not safe to load to magnum pressures for the S&W M625 Mountain gun.

The 45 Colt is a very capable cartridge even at standard pressures but if you want more velocity for some reason then buy a .44 Magnum or 454 Casull.
 
GarrettJ said:
The S&W Mountain Gun was also offered in .44 Magnum. I would expect the .45 Colt version would be up to shooting loads at or below .44 Mag pressures, and I would not be concerned loading for such.
Click to expand...

You can't use that logic since the .45 Colt chambers displaces more steel from the cylinders than the .44 Magnum does. Why not listen to the guy who knows more about the .45 Colt (he builds them) than anyone on this site does, and has written extensively about the Smith and Wesson .45 Colts: http://www.handloads.com/articles/?id=12.

Don
 
As others have stated H110 is the wrong powder to use unless you are going for magnum "ruger loads" for 45 colt. H110 really only works in straight wall magnum cartridges like 357 mag, 44 mag, 30 carbine etc... Something like Unique or hp38 would work much better for a medium power load.
 
Just get some Alliant Unique it does almost anything handgun pretty well. From magnum to reduced loads , with just about any weight bullet and regular primers. And there is a ton of data out there.
 
lol all these people only think unique is the only 45 colt powder wow!! well I load and shoot 45 colt so if you want true info do your homework or pm me I can tell you what I learned about this fine cartridge! but for now I'll share with you what two loads I build and what guns I shoot these in! first in my heritage big bore revolvers I cast out of a old single cavity mold made by lyman part# 454 190 they don't make this mold anymore but they with this same part number make a double cavity mold and my old single mold drops bullets at .460dia and I use wheelweights or lead around 12bhn give or take! now what I did was to make my pistols shoot super accurate and zero leading I sized these to .457 with a lee sizer but before I do I lube these first with lee alox and let dry then I run these thru the sizer and relube them with the same lube and let dry! then I coat these with baby powder afterwards to keep dirt from sticking to the bullets! next I of course my brass I have prepped and ready with them primed and case mouths slightly flared and then I load 6.8gr greendot powder and I then seat a bullet in each case with this powder charge! and then I use a lee collet crimp and crimp these and I found these to shoot very well and really clean! now for my two rossi model 92's in 45 colt one large loop the outher in standard loop, I also shoot the above mentioned loads I shoot in both revolvers and this also plays very well in both my rifles! now heres one other thing I do load and shoot in my two rifles but note not in the two pistols as the two pistols cannot handle this load I use in only the two rifles! I load a ruger only load using sierra 300gr jsp bullets with 20.8gr h110 and this load is very strong in these two rossi 92 leveraction 16in barreled rifles and they shoot extremely well! but I stress I do not run these loads in those two heritage big bore revolvers or any colt clones as they will blowup the gun! but in the two rossi rifles there hasn't been any problems and are strong actions!
 
Anyone who owns a S&W .45Colt will tell you quickly to forget trying to "magnumize" the N-frame. The cylinders are "thin" in the area of the bolt cut.

I for one, don't relish the idea of:
1. The recoil of even a minimal H110 load in a light revolver, and
2. The thought of trashing a valuable, no longer made "masterpiece" of a firearm is unthinkable.

I shoot as much as 11.2gr of Hodgdon LongShot under a RCBS SAA SWC (275gr) for a bit over 1,000fps. This load is on par with most .44mag loads for energy, but pressures are MUCH lower.

For many years I didn't "get" the .45Colt. Now I do! .44mag performance w/o the pressures, blast, and recoil.

I have personally seen a 255gr RFN from a .45Colt over 8.2gr of Universal (equivalent to ~9.0gr Unique) completely penetrate a whitetail doe LENGTHWISE. What more do I need?
I prefer to save on powder. 6.5gr of RedDot (or Clays, Bullseye, GreenDot, 700X) is all you NEED!
 
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Yep, a 250 Gr bullet at standard .45 Colt pressures can do a lot more than people think in this magnum world of ours. :)
 
yep and I use my standard loads a lot with greendot in all four of my guns but if I need the extra power then the two rifles and h110 will come out when I feel the need like chasing wild boar etc! but most of the time I like the 6.8grs greendot and 250gr lead bullet load it is nice and comfortable and really accurate in both revolvers and both of my rifles! ;)
 
Walkalong said:
Yep, a 250 Gr bullet at standard .45 Colt pressures can do a lot more than people think in this magnum world of ours. :)
Click to expand...
This is very true. Just for another example look at a 45-70 Gov't round. A 405gr lead bullet pushed to a painfully slow 1300-1400 fps will take any animal in North America. The .45 Colt is similar. A 250gr lead bullet @800-900fps has been reported to kill a horse. I don't know if that's true but I see no reason it couldn't.
 
Walkalong said:
Yep, a 250 Gr bullet at standard .45 Colt pressures can do a lot more than people think in this magnum world of ours. :)
Click to expand...


I agree. Still, some folks seem to want to make it something it wasn't intended for. The Mountain Gun was made to be an easily carried backpacker/hip holster woods gun in a versatile caliber. Altho it was never meant to be a .454 Casull. it still works very well for it's intended purpose. Load for it appropriately.
 
buck460XVR said:
...some folks seem to want to make it something it wasn't intended for. Load for it appropriately.
Click to expand...

I can't believe the number of guys here trying to impose their idea on what is "appropriate". We have Smith and Wesson who rates their Model 25-2 (same revolver chambered for .45 ACP) for +P loads (23,000 psi/27,000 CUP). And, we have a man who builds .45 Colts for a living and has tested the Smith and Wesson Model 25 in .45 Colt to the point of destruction to determine exactly what pressure level they can take. And despite this information from people who know from testing what the N frame in .45 Colt is capable of, the call goes out to limit any load to what they "feel" is appropriate. Lest you think that I am calling for "magnumizing" the .45 Colt, I am not. Almost all my loads are loads that are quite mild in nature. However, I would never tell you what an "appropriate" load is as long as it is a safe load. And the plain fact is, a 23,000 psi load is a safe load in an N frame Smith and Wesson in .45 Colt as stated by Smith and Wesson and John Linebaugh.

Don
 
that's why I like the ruger blackhawks and rossi 92's which I own two rossi 92's in 45 colt so I know when I say they can handle hi-pressure ruger only loads in them as I have shot mine quite a bit with these loads! but I only use these when needed that's why I sold out of all 44 magnum rossi rifles as I was looking at the chamber thickness and could clearly see the rossi 92 45 colt's could very well handle the ruger only loads and also to many others have before me have done the same thing with no problems so I tried it myself and found a treat with shooting these loads in mine as they are super accurate and deadly on the other end!
 
The S&W's are heat treated like a Ruger or Freedom Arms. H110 works alright in the 45 colt, but in that mountain gun I think you'll get better results using bludot. Good velocity and accuracy without the muzzle flash of 110 and doesn't require the heavy crimp.
Find a Hornady #3 manual and look at the 45 colt data there.
 
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