S&W 617--advice requested

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MikeSp

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Have decided it was time to own a wheel gun and plan on purchasing a new S&W model 617 with 6 inch barrel since the 8 3/4 inch barreled model does not seem to be available any longer. Other than the number of rounds that the cylinder can hold, are there any other issues that I should consider in deciding whether to purchase a 6 shot or 10 shot model such as dependability, trigger and hammer size, resale value, etc. It appears that speedloaders are available for the six shot but not for the 10 shot. In addition to target shooting using a red dot sight, this handgun will also be used with low velocity CB longs for small varmit control. Any thoughts before I purchase this handgun? TIA

MikeSp
 
Re: Resale - I paid just over $400 for my 10 shot 6" barreled 617, and recieved $325 trade in for it ~ 6 months later and was tickled pink to be rid of the piece of junk.

Some of the "warts" mine had.

- On K frames I prefer the old square frame - the 617 was a round frame.

- 10 shots indexed completly different from my other 6 shot K frames (All Model 19's (.38/.357). Since part of my reason for getting the .22 was a cheaper alternative to shooting the centerfires, this made it worthless in that respect.

- Poor QC- The bore was so rough it would lead up after firing the first cylinder full and start to "keyhole" on the target due to the bullets tumbling. It finally smoothed out,,,but not before I'd scrubbed the bore with toothpaste enough to lap it smooth, AND fired 3 or 4 bricks of plated ammunition through it. (American Eagle) - speaking of which, American Eagle was the ONLY brand of ammunition that would reliably fire in it due to a very light hammer strike. Any other ammunition would give me between 3 and 6 :what: failures to fire per cylinder (lotsa fun there huh?).:banghead:
Makes for a real [leasant learning experience for a newbie to hand them a gun that fires on a so so basis...{dripping sarcasm}
- Poor QC part II - Trigger - Awfull doesn't even come close to describe it, but since this is a family oriented board I pass on the profanity. D/A was upwards of 18 - 20 pounds IIRC,,,,and griity,,,and creepy,,and it broke over at different points. S/A, in the neighborhood of 8 pounds (est) was terrible. Again, like the lack of reliablity,,almost a sure fire way to make a potential newbie shooter into a Brady supporter:banghead:

- Unbalanced - the 6" barrel AND the full underlug AND the round butt made for an extremely unbalanced front heavy gun. I'm no Arnold, nor am I a Casper Milquetoast either,,,,but shooting more than a few hundred rounds offhand made for mighty sore wrists. Definately not something you'd want to hand to a new shooter to introduce them to shooting.

- Final "bugged me" - The *frosted stainless finish*. Sounds trivial I know, but I hated that gun so much,,,just looking at that "Frosted finish" drove me over the edge with it. It just screamed CHEAP!!!!,,like Smith knew they had a real dog, and to top it off just bead blasted the outside as a final act of "we're so cheap we ain't even going to bother with a decent finish on this POS,,,but HAHAHAHAHA we got your money!!!"

Bad gun or Lemon?
Mine was 100% a lemon since it had some QC issues. A trip (or 2 or 3 or 4) back to Smith probably would have cleared up the misfires and the rough bore. A set of aftermarket grips to turn the round butt into something closer to a square butt also would have helped. A trigger job also would have helped. I just couldn't see putting an additional couple of hundred into an already $400 gun,,,and still being stuck with the index issue,,and the lack of balance,,,and the ""frosted finish".

So what did I end up with? A real nice pair of older Model 17's, 6" barrel, eat any and all amunition, have triggers to die for, have a real honest to God blue finish, square frames - - - AND I paid $700 for the pair of them.

(OH, BTW welcome to the forums)
 
I agree with Hall on several points.

Building a .22 on a .38 frame always results in a heavy gun. Add a full underlug on a 6 inch or longer gun and it's REALLY heavy.

I see no reason to make 10-shot cylinders. At this point timing gets very critical.

Older K-22 revolvers are selling on the Internet auctions for around $250.00 to $350.00 and are truely excellent guns. I'd buy one of those. If you do sell it in the future it's highly probable you'll get all of the purchase price back, and maybe more. Can't say that for sure on a new one.
 
I have a 1948 & 1955 K22's, and an early 70's model 18; all great guns, all very accurate, especially the K22's.

But I also own a 10 shot 617 with the no longer made aluminum cylinder, and it's as accurate as the others, and easier, in my opinion, to shoot double action.

standard.jpg
 
WOW Hal!!!! Glad that you held back on how you really felt:what: But I understand how you felt having gone through an equivalent process with a $25K John Deere Tractor that was a total lemon and my frustrations were even worse than yours :fire: even though JD stood behind all of their design and engineering goofs. I am not a wheel gun fan anyway (probably not supposed to admit that on this forum) so your response along with a few things I read elsewhere on the Internet that were also negative about the 617 led me to a conclusion that I did not want a S&W 617 afterall. Thus I ordered a new Ruger Mark II Slabside Target Pistol--it may not be as accurate as a K22, but will serve my needs--it comes with rings and is ready for a red dot scope. Since there are many gunshows in the Kansas City area, I will be on the lookout for an original K22 Masterpiece and with time on my side, will eventually find one for a reasonable price. Obviously, newer is not always better. Thanks for your detailed response.
 
Mike;

I suspect that if you fired both a Ruger Mark II and S&W K-22 mounted in a machine rest you'd find that the Ruger pistol was as accurate as the revolver @ 50 yards, and maybe more so.

The difference between the two isn't so much in accuracy as other factors. For example, it is safer to carry the K-22 fully loaded then the pistol. In so far as adjustable rear sights are concerned, the S&W is better. The revolver's trigger pull, that largely defines hand-held accuracy, is also much better on the revolver. Finely, there is a certain "pride of ownership" in a high-quality revolver that the pistol can't match. But for practical value vs. money spent you can't beat the Ruger, and that what the designer/maker met it to be.
 
I have a 617 and it is one of the best guns I have, mine is a new model and I have had no QC issues at all, the trigger is decent and I have not had any misfires other than some bad federal rounds. In terms of new production 22lr revos you cannot beat the 617, I had a Taurus 94 that I could not get rid of fast enough talk about QC issues, the ruger SP is a good gun but the trigger and sights are worse and it only holds 6 (if I already had a SP I might think different.

If you want NIB get a 617, if you go used get a K22 or an old colt.
 
Hal,
I have to ask why did you buy the M617 in the first place? You prefer square butt frames and bought a round butt frame. You like blue steel, but bought a stainless model. You really didn't expect a 10 shot model to index the same as a 6 shot model did you? Finally did you even try the trigger before you purchased or accepted possesion of the revolver?
I understand the QC issues shouldn't have been there, but why buy one model when you prefer something different?
 
I have to ask why did you buy the M617 in the first place?
The whole thing started with a Walther PPK. of all things. I always wanted a PPK, and found a used but unfired one for $395. I bought it, shot it and found I didn't like the way it chewed up my hand. I sold it for $400. A K -frame .22 was on my list of guns to buy, and I'd been looking for either a 17 or an 18,,,in like new condition,,for close to 2 years without any luck. The only 1 I ran across in that time was an old K22 that the local dealer want close to 6 bills for. I decided to give the new 617 a try mostly out of frustration/having the money to spend at the time. Seemed nobody stocked the 617 so I ended up ordering one.

You prefer square butt frames and bought a round butt frame.
The 617 was my first venture into a round butt model. Prior to that I had no real preference. The round butt was a fairly minor issue but it just added to my total dislike of the gun in the end.

You like blue steel, but bought a stainless model.
Actually, I prefer bright Nickle over anything else on a K frame. Blue (as in the older well done bluing on Smiths) is a close 2nd. Stainless is something I can take or leave. What frosts me (ohhh, bad pun,,,) though is the way mfgs will bead blast stainless to cut corners on mfg costs and call it something catchy like "frosted". I own and enjoy shooting several stainless guns. I'll admit I even own another Smith "frosted" stainless ( A model 22s- -Which by the way is another less than stellar made gun. I keep it because it's by far the most accurate .22 I own)<- - A whole nuther thread in and of itself.

You really didn't expect a 10 shot model to index the same as a 6 shot model did you?
No, not really. At the time, I wasn't all that concerned with the way it indexed, and my desire for a K frame .22 outweighed most other concerns. I should also mention that along with looking for an old 17 or 18, I had a new 6 shot 4" 617 on order with a local dealer for close to a year. There was a time (1996-1999 IIRC, that K frame .22's were as rare as hens teeth). I had just gotten back into heavy shooting after a ~ 15 year hiatus, and found to my dismay that the market had changed quite a bit.

Finally did you even try the trigger before you purchased or accepted possesion of the revolver? No,,, I ordered the gun so I couldn't try the trigger out first. The trigger had potential,,and lacking the other "warts",,is something I could have lived with by having a professional work on it. At the time,,, this was going to be either a trainer type used to introduce new shooters OR the platform for a "killer accurate" .22 OR a substitute for the centerfires. In the end, the 617 didn't fufill any of the three, so I got rid of it.

I understand the QC issues shouldn't have been there, but why buy one model when you prefer something different? Fair question. The answer is:
- At the time, I wanted a .22 revolver. I should say I wanted a Smith and Wesson .22 revolver. I'd already passed over a Smith .22 years before and bought a Dan Wesson instead because it was cheaper. Fast foreward a number of years and my gun budget allowed for a lot of flexability.
- Mostly - ya never know for sure. Two other guns that I was so -so on before really giving them a fair shake - CZ75b and Ruger .22/45 convinced me of that. In the case of the .22/45, I bought one simply because the price was right. Polymer guns always left me flat./I'd had a previous experience with Ruger .22's that left me disappointed with the overall design. The .22/45 has since become one of my favorites. The CZ? I still don't like the way it feels, nor do I like the 9mm. Neither of those factors prevent it form being right next to me as I type as a HD gun;one of the best bargin shooters I know of, and would heartily recommend to anyone.
- Lack of success in finding what I really wanted (Model 17/18)( 6 shot).
- One thing you'll notice that I didn't downgrade the 617 for is the potential for accuracy. After I lapped the bore and had adjusted to the horrid trigger and slowly adjusted to the round butt,, it was an absolute one hole wonder. Change a few other things about the gun and I may have kept it simply on that virtue alone. I kind of doubt it though, since as I adjusted to the round butt design, my proficency with the square butt design fell off.
- Lastly,,,,it's only money ;). Ok, seriously,,, it is only money. Not that I sprout greenbacks from my armpits or anything, but I've reached a point in my life that I don't have to pay a lot of attention to a price tag if it's something I want. I "invested" ~ $400 of somewhat *found* money on a gun that I wasn't 100% sure of. In the end, I ended up losing a small amount (total was closer to only $50 because of the discount on the front end of what I traded it for (A Smith Model 19 snubby - yes - another round butt - yes it confirmed almost forever that don't care for the design - yes I'm also considering another round butt - in yet another new Smith (.45LC or .44mag Mountain gun)- go figure ). I ended up trading the 19 on a Browning High Power Practical FWIW. I lost close to a hundred on that deal,,,but I don't really care,,,,I love the Practical - -and Practical's (new in box), while not rare - don't grow on trees either. I guess, on the whole, I "paid" ~ $150 for my experience going from a PPK, to a 617, to a snubby to a High Power Practical. I've spent far more and gotten far less in return on other things. Why just last Saturday, I spent $300 on video slots and ended up with 3 bucks in my pocket :D
(Course on the high side o that, I dropped a buck and a quarter in a slot and ended up with a Kimber once :D)
 
My ten-shooter pre-agreement model 617 is a pretty good plinker, albeit somewhat heavy for what's left of my right wrist. My recently acquired 1951 K-22, (shown here with its original stocks rather than the Ropers I was fortunate enough to find,) is an altogether better revolver. I found it right here at the High Road.

The finish on my model 617 was nothing to write home about, so I sent it to http://www.magnaport.com for bead blasting, hammer and trigger jewelling, and barrel crowning. I had a six-inch barrel on it for awhile, but the finishes didn't match, and it was less accurate than the longer tube.

The coco bolo stocks are from http://herrettstocks.com
 
Hey Hal, why didn't you send it back to Smith? Shipping is free both ways and you can even arrange for FedEx to pick it up. The gun obviously had warranty issues. Smith fixed the most minor complaints I had in my F Comp (the grips didn't fit close enough for my taste)
 
I have a stainless 617 10-shot with 4" barrel. It is a great training gun for newbies and has been durable as a brick. Balances well. Nice sights, though I'd like a thinner blade or maybe a fiber optic for accuracy work. Double action is very good.

I've found it is not particularly accurate with any of the cheaper, mass produced ammo. But, with good target load it produces very tight groups with rarely a flyer.

Great fun gun. Some day I'd like to get an older model 17/K22 though. Love the blueing and the big old target grips. Hogues just don't fit my hand very well.
 
why didn't you send it back to Smith?
Click to expand...
Might sound strange,,,, but the answer is that I felt it was too much bother. Even if Smith had fixed the gun to 100% on the first try, I STILL would have had a gun I didn't really like.

Might sound kind of strange on the surface, but I've reached a point in life where I never buy anything based on what I want or what I need alone. I buy what I need when I want it,,,,and what I want before I need it,,,,if that makes sense.
 
Hal--that philoosophy makes perfect sense to me--just sounds as though you have retired or are nearing that point in your life (been there and done that and therefore understand). :D

Michael S.
 
As I read Hal's posts on the M617, I was nodding. I did almost the exact same thing, and I also got rid of the M617 in favor of two older (1948 and 1956) K-22 Masterpieces.

When I got my ten-shot M617, I really did not know how, for lack of a better word, wrong it felt compared to the six-shot K-frames I had used in the past. I bought mine at the time when the .22 K-frames were hard to find, so I jumped on the first one I saw. I was not too enthused about the full-lug, but I decided to give it a try. Unlike Hal, I actually like the bead-blasted stainless finishes due to the lack of glare. But the other things he mentioned really resonated with me. The combination of the full-lug barrel, the ten-shot cylinder, and the stiff action made my decision to trade the M617 fairly easy.

I actually traded it straight-up for the 1956 K-22 Masterpiece; it was one of those trades where both sides went away thinking, "This was a good deal". He wanted stainless and ten rounds; I wanted a lighter barrel, six rounds, and a smooth action. Each of us went away with what we wanted.
 
After reading Hal's explanation I completely understand his point. I also once settled on a handgun choice because the model I wanted was not available at that time. Though it was a good handgun, it never fulfilled the expectations I wanted. Luckily it laid around here long enough till I did get my money back out of it when I sold it. The temptation to buy like that still pops up from time to time, but I have learned that lesson. Buy what you want the first time, or you may be forever saying "what if".
 
Didn't read all the posts. I did read Hal's first though(and it sounds familiar) and skimmed the rest.
I bought a ten shot 617 and it had to go back to the factory twice.

It shaved lead so bad that you could shoot mutiple targets at the same time and you had better have your glasses on!

It does ok now.
The trigger is smooth but very heavy. Too heavy in my opinion.
But it seems most revolvers have triggers like this these days.
Of course this is due to liabilty.

I still on occasion have light strikes and no"BOOM"

If I HAD to sell one handgun, the 617 would be the one.
 
I have been a Smith fan ever since I started shooting handguns and longed for a 617 for some time. Finally bought a 6" six shot version and turned out to be the only Smith I ever bought that I would consider junk! The cylinder started to bind and the accuracy was fairly marginal at best. Sent back to Smith - cylinder no longer had binding problem but the gun would not shoot even when benched with a 7X Burris attached. I was glad to be relieved of this lemon and ended up with a Ruger Single Six.

Hopefully one day I will be able to find one of the older Smith 22s that are highly praised.
 
Thanks to all of you that posted your experiences and opinions of the Smith 617 in which I had (read: HAD) an interest. I wanted a tack driver and decided it was finally time to get a wheel gun even though I have a number of pistols in various calibers. I went to plan B and purchased a Ruger slabside and an Ultradot 4 and will watch out for an old K22 at gunshows that I often attend. Thanks again

Michael S.
 
I find my 617 doesn't do so well with a reduced power mainspring, so I'd recommend only changing the rebound spring and slicking up the inside of the sideplate and the slide itself with some light stoning and/or dremeling with jeweler's rouge.
 
The 10-shot 617 I have shot was a very nice revolver...just kinda pricey (which is why I haven't bought one yet :rolleyes: )
 
One of the top custom revolver me told me that a guy in his shop with a 617 that won't group and they can't figure out why. On the other hand, mine groups very well. It has over 3,000 rounds through it with no wear even though it has MIM parts. I shot it off the bench today with cci mini mag hollow points and some Eley Club Match. Most of the five shot groups with the Eleys approached one inch with all the cci s a low smaller. The Eley's did turn in the smallest five shot group though
617groups.jpg

no coins were harmed in making this picture. The groups were photographed on the same plain and overlaid.
 
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