S&W 686 action woes

[bikemutt]

Perhaps foolishly, I let an amateur trigger-jobber have at it with a 686. The idea was to lighten and smooth the action.

Ever since then I've been frustrated with light strikes resulting in failures to ignite.

I know the mainspring tension screw was not turned in all the way so I did the obvious and tightened it all the way in. What that did is make it so the trigger is now reluctant to return to the firing position after the hammer has fallen and it's been released. It's sticky, I have to nudge it for it to go back forward.

If I back of the mainspring tension the trigger returns to normal.

I have tried different (stock) rebound and main springs, same thing. I removed the piece that houses the rebound spring and checked for obvious things like dirt, gunk, burrs; nothing, looks good and is lubed.

HELP

 

[ArchAngelCD]

He probably cut one or more of the springs which should never be done. You can buy a replacement spring kit from Wolff Gunsprings. I would ask him exactly what he did before you do the spring replacement.
http://www.gunsprings.com/

 

[RussB]

Perhaps foolishly, I let an amateur trigger-jobber have at it with a 686. The idea was to lighten and smooth the action.

Ever since then I've been frustrated with light strikes resulting in failures to ignite.

I know the mainspring tension screw was not turned in all the way so I did the obvious and tightened it all the way in. What that did is make it so the trigger is now reluctant to return to the firing position after the hammer has fallen and it's been released. It's sticky, I have to nudge it for it to go back forward.

If I back of the mainspring tension the trigger returns to normal.

I have tried different (stock) rebound and main springs, same thing. I removed the piece that houses the rebound spring and checked for obvious things like dirt, gunk, burrs; nothing, looks good and is lubed.

HELP

It's hard for me to believe that with the factory rebound spring installed that the trigger doesn't return with authority.

Are there shims either on top of or below the trigger? If these were installed, they could make the trigger bind when the sideplate is installed

 

[Drail]

The trigger return is completely controlled by the rebound spring which he probably also replaced with a lighter spring (or cut the stock one). A new Wolff spring kit will fix your problem. It comes with a new mainspring for the hammer and three springs for the trigger return (rebound).

 

[627PCFan]

What ArchAngelCD said, except replace them all. Completely disassemble and look for damage on each component since you don't know what else the joker did.

 

[MrBorland]

I'll point out the obvious and say the trigger return spring is having to overcome extra resistance, such that it can only overcome the mainspring resistance if the mainspring tension's been tuned down. Unfortunately, that leads to light strikes.

So, what's the source of the resistance? If you're comfortable with the innards of your 686, take a look inside and see if you can find where it might be binding (take the tension off the mainspring when the sideplate's off, though). Check the movement of the hammer, trigger (with and without the sideplate installed), rebound slide and cylinder stop independently, and through their entire range of motion to be sure one of those things aren't independently hanging up.

Could be that a couple of pieces aren't playing well together. Off the top of my head, I'd suggest looking at the cylinder stop spring - make sure it's completely seated. The trigger rides over the stop during the return, and if it's not seated completely, it's essentially pre-tensioned, and the hammer may have trouble resetting past it.

Another possibility is the DA sear - was it replaced as part of the action job, by chance? Could be it's too long, and the nose of the trigger is hanging up on it a bit during the return.

 

[bikemutt]

OK guys, thanks for the tips, I'll do some more investigating later today, pretty sure I still have a left over Wolff spring kit around here somewhere.

 

[rcmodel]

I have seen rebound slides that someone polished too far and removed the glass hard surface.

Then they drag like crazy in the frame.

It's hard to say what your Bubba gunsmith stoned or polished that he shouldn't have.

rc

 

[PJSprog]

Perhaps foolishly, ...

Indeed.

Lessons learned.

 

[bikemutt]

Well guys, I dug into this revolver a bit more...

First off, I don't believe the mainspring in the gun is a S&W part, in fact it looks like a Miculek mainspring which I figure based on having one of those handy. The base of the mainspring is flat steel unlike a factory mainspring which has a small hooked area that fits in a groove in the frame. The problem lies in thickness of the steel at the base; this mainspring is considerable thicker steel at the base so when the tension screw is tightened down all the way there is way more tension on the mainspring. In other words, it appears this mainspring is designed to be gradually adjusted until the perfect balance of trigger weight and ignition is achieved.

What I don't know is where this mainspring came from. I bought the gun used and never observed the configuration. I was not told by bubbasmith that he replaced the mainspring so I'm assuming that's what it came with.

Anyway, I dug around and found a S&W mainspring from a long ago project and installed it. Now the action is perfect. I won't know about ignition until I can hit the range. If the ignition problem is solved I'll just leave it alone, it really feels great. If not, I'll get a Wolffe spring for it.

 

[bikemutt]

Let me post one other observation:

This gun has a trigger travel stop screw in the rear of the trigger. It also has a hammer mounted firing pin. When I squeeze the trigger all the way and the hammer drops, I can manually push the hammer more forward which would obviously push the firing pin more forward.

Not knowing how everything is connected, is it possible the trigger stop is not allowing the trigger to go back far enough and in turn not allowing the firing pin to extend further into the chamber? In other words, could the stop be short stroking the hammer?

 

[tomrkba]

Send it to Sand Burr Gun Ranch. Dennis will make it nice and do so quickly. I sent it to Sand Burr Gun Ranch in mid December and had it a month later. You could try Grant Cunningham, but he has a very long waiting list.

 

[evan price]

People commonly clip a couple coils off of the rebound spring. The rebound spring and mainspring have to be calibrated to match each other. Once you tightened the mainspring strain screw, it overpowers the rebound spring.

I agree, a Wolff gunspring kit is going to be in your future. They make a kit with an assortment of power level rebound springs so you can try to find the one you like best, it's about $20 iirc.

 

[MrBorland]

I dug around and found a S&W mainspring from a long ago project and installed it. Now the action is perfect.

I misunderstood your OP, then. It sounded like you already tried putting the factory springs back in the gun, but it didn't fix the problem. At any rate, sounds like the problem's fixed. As others noted, it's important the main and rebound springs balance each other. Factory springs are designed as such, but all bets are off when they get willy nilly replaced.

 

[bikemutt]

I misunderstood your OP, then. It sounded like you already tried putting the factory springs back in the gun, but it didn't fix the problem. At any rate, sounds like the problem's fixed. As others noted, it's important the main and rebound springs balance each other. Factory springs are designed as such, but all bets are off when they get willy nilly replaced.

Sorry for the confusion, I replaced it with what I "thought" was a factory mainspring, turns out it was a Miculek one that had been mislabeled

My real gunsmith is not a fan of of the Miculek springs, they have a tendency to jump off at the hammer end, mostly with K, L frames he says.

 

[Old Fuff]

First of all, the main and rebound springs are made to work together, and if you modify or change one you will likely loose the balance with the other.

When you pull the trigger and hold it back the hammer should be forward and not move. As you release the trigger it should rotate slightly backwards to pull the hammer nose (firing pin) back into the frame and then be blocked so that it can't move forward, although it can be cocked backwards. I have a feeling that this action tune-up is going to cost a lot more then you expected.

Miculek mainsprings don't unhook from the hammer stirrup if they are correctly assembled with a full length mainspring tension screw.

You need to find someone that is experienced and qualified to inspect your revolver to find out exactly what has been done. If no one in your area meets this description return the gun to Smith & Wesson.

 

[bikemutt]

Miculek mainsprings don't unhook from the hammer stirrup if they are correctly assembled with a full length mainspring tension screw.

Well, that hasn't been my experience, nor my experienced gunsmith's observation, at least with L-frames. He doesn't recommend them because he got tired of having to re-install them in customer's guns after trips to the range, it's work he ends up doing for free. The stirrup hook of the Miculek mainsprings are angled back in such a fashion that their hold on the stirrup is tenuous at best. I have one installed in an N-frame that is problem free.

If a tension screw other than the one S&W furnished with the gun is required then maybe it should be included with the kit.

 

[Walkalong]

The first easy try is to replace the springs with new ones of the proper strength, and hope that is all they screwed up.