S&W Faceoff - Choosing a 'Cleaner' 22

[JV_2108]

Getting down to deciding between a S&W 617 and an S&W 648, and these seem to be some of the bigger differences:

S&W 617 - 22 LR
Cleaner Ammo Available Minus
Speedloader Available Plus (6 shot)
Ammo cost & availability Slight Plus
Works w/ backyard trap Plus

S&W 648 - 22 MAG
Cleaner Ammo Available Plus
Speedloader Available Minus
Ammo cost & availability Slight Minus
Works w/ backyard trap Minus

Both are compatible with the local club smallbore sports I'm planning to practice for - a Bowling Pin Shoot and Falling Plates. I think that both will be fine for me to learn with as a near-rank beginner. And both seem to be fine for small game if I go that way (so long as I choose the right ammo).

Oh, I'm leaning towards the 648 at the moment. Seems I might as well get a 22 mag for which I can easily get FMJ to minimze lead exposure. But that's based on all of my assumptions/understanding above.

Am I on the right track here?

Any other thoughts?

 

[Terrierman]

Cleaner in what respect? Lead exposure? While I do not have data to back it up, I suspect that copper or brass coated .22 LR results in similar exposure to the shooter as FMJ .22 WMR? .22 WMR will carry a significant advantage in downrange energy which would be an advantage for pins and plates and that's a fact. .22 WMR out of a pistol is the approximate performance equal of .22 LR from a rifle length barrel. Whether it's worth the difference in ammunition cost is up to you.

 

[JV_2108]

In two senses actually. Exposure, and the ease in keeping the gun clean.

 

[farscott]

I shoot both the pre-M17 and M48 (the older blued versions of the revolvers you mentioned), and my choice, given your goals, is the M17. I only use the M48 for scoped small game hunting; the M17 gets the nod for all other rimfire chores. Other than energy delivered downrange, the advantages all go to the .22 Long Rifle and the M17. Jacketed ammo does not significantly lower your exposure to lead. The sheer variety of .22 LR ammo is a huge plus as you will need to learn what ammo your revolver likes. The cost advantage of .22 LR should not be ignored as you can easily buy 500 rounds of .22 LR for what 100 rounds of .22 WMR cost.

There is nothing easier to clean than the M17. The bore is a snap with .22 LR ammo, and I rarely use anything more than a bore snake. The .22 WMR does not burn all of its powder in the short barrel of a handgun (and I have the 8-3/8" barrel), and unburned powder particles get into the action, especially around the extractor star. The same is true of the .22 LR but the degree of fouling seems to be much less. .22 LR is also much quieter out of a revolver than .22 WMR.

I did own an M648-2 for a time, and I did like the redesigned extractor star. The larger extractor of the M648-2 makes fired case extraction a snap. It also does seem to eliminate some of the powder fouling issues mentioned above.

 

[JV_2108]

I shoot both the pre-M17 and M48 (the older blued versions of the revolvers you mentioned), and my choice, given your goals, is the M17. I only use the M48 for scoped small game hunting; the M17 gets the nod for all other rimfire chores. Other than energy delivered downrange, the advantages all go to the .22 Long Rifle and the M17. Jacketed ammo does not significantly lower your exposure to lead. The sheer variety of .22 LR ammo is a huge plus as you will need to learn what ammo your revolver likes. The cost advantage of .22 LR should not be ignored as you can easily buy 500 rounds of .22 LR for what 100 rounds of .22 WMR cost.

There is nothing easier to clean than the M17. The bore is a snap with .22 LR ammo, and I rarely use anything more than a bore snake. The .22 WMR does not burn all of its powder in the short barrel of a handgun (and I have the 8-3/8" barrel), and unburned powder particles get into the action, especially around the extractor star. The same is true of the .22 LR but the degree of fouling seems to be much less. .22 LR is also much quieter out of a revolver than .22 WMR.

I did own an M648-2 for a time, and I did like the redesigned extractor star. The larger extractor of the M648-2 makes fired case extraction a snap. It also does seem to eliminate some of the powder fouling issues mentioned above.

I like this line of thinking. Two factors may run a bit counter to it.

When I rented a Dan Wesson 22 at the local range, the CCI ammo I used left my hands very stained with lead. Perhaps that's just the ammo, but it struck me as easily avoidable through selection of a 22 WMR where jacketed ammo is available.

The second factor is bore cleanability. I've seen some posts here with discussions of using jacketed ammo to help keep lead deposition in the bore down.

Still may go with the 617, just need to make up my damn mind. I really want a 22 right now.

 

[farscott]

The .22 LR is outside lubricated, so avoid handling it by the bullet. In addition, .22 LR velocity is so low that leading is seldom, if ever, an issue. I have experienced leading with the .22 LR with one Ruger Mark II. Stopping the use of bulk pack hyper-velocity ammo and a good cleaning eliminated the leading. The use of jacketed bullets to reduce leading usually applies to higher intensity cartridges.

The residue on your hands may have been the hard lubricant. There are copper-washed .22 LR loads, including the bulk-pack Winchester Dyna-Points sold by Wal-Mart.

Good luck with your rimfire search. I would start with the M17/M617 and pick up an M48/M648 later.

 

[JV_2108]

I was definitely handling the CCI 22s by the bullet, and that could well have been lubricant. That's not a probelm with my 38 FMJs.

The local shop has a 617 6 shot in stock at a fair price. I may just buy it today.

 

[Hutch]

617, that's the ticket. Cheap and tons-o'-fun to shoot. Unless you shoot indoors a lot, the lead exposure is just negligable, IMHO. Buy the 617, and keep your eyes open for an blued M17, M18, or pre-model number version of either.

 

[JV_2108]

Finally bought the 617.

I only put twelve rounds through it this afternoon in double action (it's 19 F with a 22 mph wind). It was a lot of fun to shoot. I think it's just what I need. Something that works well, and that I really enjoy shooting with. Now I can really start learning and practicing.

Some observations:

The action is awesome. So smooth to open and closes up so tight.

Very smooth trigger.

Seems like no kick (especially compared to the Colt Detective Special), which I also put 12 rounds through.

One complaint -bought one of those 22 brass cleaning brushes - more like they through that, some targets, and some ammo in. Trouble was the rod from the 38/357 cleaning kit I got at Wally World won't fit in a 22. Neither will the plastic patch puller tip. Oh, well, not like that's gonna set me back too much. Just a little annoying.

Gotta admit I'm hooked. Amazing to think I never really used a gun till I was 42.