S&W K frame 357s

[MAKster]

I have a question about the differences between the 38 special and 357 mag K frames. Since the longer 357 case requires a longer cylinder, did they also lengthen the frame to accommodate the longer cylinder? If so did they then start making the 38 special models on the longer frame as well?

 

[UncleEd]

As far as I know, the answeer is "no." The window of the
.38 K frame was already big enough to accommodate the
added length of the .357 (variously listed as 1/10th or 1/8th
of an inch longer). Just changed the amount of barrel
screwed into the frame.

But the .357s were beefed up in the yoke/crane area to
withstand the extra pressures.

Not quite related to the question but....
....Once upon a time, I was reloading .357s with a fairly
heavy and long bullet. They fit fine in the cylinder of
a Ruger GP-100 but ended up sticking out of the
front of the cylinder on a Smith .357 with recessed
chambers. Obviously I couldn't close the Smith
cylinder.

 

[gotboostvr]

fun fact: oddly enough the K frames can handle a longer COAL than the N frame 357's

 

[MAKster]

Thanks Uncle Ed. That is exactly what I have been trying to figure out. I have a model 66 but only shoot 38 special out of it. I was thinking about getting a model 10 but it doesn't seem to be any smaller than the 357 mag models so probably not worth it.

 

[WestKentucky]

Thanks Uncle Ed. That is exactly what I have been trying to figure out. I have a model 66 but only shoot 38 special out of it. I was thinking about getting a model 10 but it doesn't seem to be any smaller than the 357 mag models so probably not worth it.

Absolutely not worth it if you want different. The model 10 is a heck of a gun though and has served well for decades on many police forces and in a few military applications. Treat yourself to an old model 10 if you can. Mine is a -6, ugly as can be with some terrible patina and lost bluing. I need to strip it and reblue it, or parkerize it, but despite its cosmetic concerns it is an incredible gun and I will not part with it as long as I am alive.

 

[.38 Special]

I really like both guns. The only advantage I can think of for the Model 10 is that you don't have to scrape out the "crud ring" after firing .38s in it.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Pretty sure they are the same since it was common practice for cops to have their M10 cylinders through-bored to accept Magnums back in the day.

Also fun fact- at least some of the French Police Ruger .38s are through-bored from the factory and accept Magnums just fine. They were only marked ".38 Spl. Ctg" to make them more politically acceptable because "magnum" sounds scary.

 

[J-Bar]

You drove me to measure some guns. Measurements made with a cheap old dial micrometer.

For what it is worth:

S&W Model 10-6 K Frame .38 Sp.:
frame opening length (recoil shield to front) 1.815"
cylinder overall length 1.565"

S&W Model 14-3 K Frame .38 Sp.:
frame opening length 1.815"
cylinder overall length 1.565"

S&W Model 15-3 K Frame .38 Sp.:
frame opening length 1.812"
cylinder overall length 1.565"

S&W Model 19-3 K Frame .357 Mag.:
frame opening length 1.810"
cylinder overall length 1.675"

S&W Model 686 L Frame .357 Mag.:
frame opening length 1.815"
cylinder overall length 1.635

And just because I have one:

S&W Model 60-4 J Frame .38 Sp.:
frame opening length 1.650"
cylinder overall length 1.550"

It looks to me like the frame openings on K and L frame .38s and .357s are the same. The K frame .357, the Model 19 has the longest cylinder, even longer than the L frame.

I have no idea what conclusions can be drawn. Hopefully Driftwood Johnson will be along in a while!

 

[labnoti]

That 19-3 K frame's cylinder is longer because it has recessed chambers. L frames never had recessed chambers. On a recessed chamber cylinder, the outside edge of the cylinder's rear is going to extend closer to the recoil shield.

 

[J-Bar]

Thanks, makes sense.

 

[unspellable]

The K frames have a longer cylinder than the N frames because back at the dawn of time the M&P was designed for two cartridges, the new fangled 38 Smith and Wesson Special and the old 32-20, which was fairly popular as a revolver cartridge at the time. The 32-20 is longer.

 

[Riomouse911]

Dan Wesson 15-2’s also have recessed chambers leading to a slightly shorter maximum OAL for reloads. I had some loads that wouldn’t fit in my 15-2 that chambered just fine in the 686+.

I like shooting my fixed-sight 4” Model 64 .38 Spl. as much as my adjustable-sighted DA revolvers. (If you weren’t aware, the Model 64 is just a stainless Model 10 .38 Spl.) There is just something clean and honest about firing good groups with the 64 gr or Model 13 .357, I honestly get more satisfaction from those than good groups with any of my semi-autos.

Stay safe.

 

[wgf]

Here are a couple of different K frames. There are several obvious differences but they seem to shoot the same. I am just a mediocre shooter. The group sizes are to show the guns shoot equally well. I am sure a good shooter could make these guns do much better. The bullet was 158 grain lead semi wadcutter at about 15% below a maximum pressure 38 Special load..

 

[wgf]

The 15-6 is probably worth about $450, the 66-8 about $650.
The 15-6 is a PD from 30 years ago, the 66-8 is the recent product.
The 66 barrel is .1” larger in diameter. That is the only different measurement except for the cylinder length and 1/4” of barrel.

 

[wgf]

Both have smooth double actions, the 66 SA is slightly heavier. Both SAs are crisp.
The 66 is a little tighter lock up. I would say when in battery with the trigger to the rear the 66 has .001” of play and the 15 slightly more, maybe .0015.
The 66 barrel/cone gap is .002”, the 15 is .005”.

 

[wgf]

Subjectively the 15s grips fit me better, but I like the standard 66 grips better than the wood standard grips for the 15.