S&W M&P and Ruger SR Observations

[ugaarguy]

So, I traded into a LNIB S&W M&P 40 today. I really like the gun, but the trigger leaves much to be desired. This is a current production pistol with the ledge rear sight, and square notch mag floor plates. An M&P armorer (friend at a different shop) confirmed that it has the most recent rolling changes he's seen to date.

I also recently acquired a Ruger SR9c. As many of you know, Ruger's greatly improved triggers for the SR series introduction coincided with the introduction of the SR9c. I remember the original SR9 triggers, which were bad in comparison to the S&W M&P line.

Side by side, the SR9c has a superior trigger. It breaks more cleanly, is firmer, and has a far shorter reset. The M&P has an annoying false reset, as 9mm Epiphany calls it, and the term fits.

The M&P 40 I picked up is a manual safety model; which I like since I mostly shoot 1911s. I like the shape of the M&P's grip safeties better than the SR's, but the SR grip safeties engage & disengage more positively. The engagement / disengagement thing is hard core nitpicking though.

As for the grips, I like the texture on the M&P much better. The molded checkering on the front strap of the SR is so sharp / rough that I've put a piece of OD green duct tape over front strap - and I run Simonich Gunner Grips on of my 1911s. Oddly, the same side panel checkering on the SR feels great. I also like that the M&P backstraps don't require a tool to change like the SR's insert does.

The SR has Ruger's new Nitrodox Pro finish, which is supposed to be a ferritic nitrocarburizing finish like Melonite. I do like the steel sights on the M&P better, but again that's nitpicking.

 

[LiveLife]

As a long-time Glock shooter, I followed the development of the M&P pistols with great interest. When I got my full-size M&P 40, it was only natural for me to make comparisons with the Glock 22. After getting the M&P 40, I was happy enough that I also got the M&P 45.

M&P 40 has more "natural pointing" grip angle like 1911/Sig 226 and initial response from anyone who never handled the M&P is, "Ooooohhhh, nice grip". The shape/contour of the grip fits your hand like a glove. The 3 grip inserts customize the grip for different hand sizes and the fully ambidextrous controls (slide lock, swappable mag release, frame safety - if equipped) are more ergonomic and easily reached without having to "shift" my grip. I need to shift the grip on my G22 to operate the mag release and there is no slide lock on the left side of the frame.

M&P 40 has full-length stainless guide rod with captured flat recoil spring. The spring rate is probably more than Glock as the felt recoil is "softer" with less "snap" when compared to G22 (which is softer shooting than other 40S&W pistols).

As to trigger, M&P 40 had about 6.5 lb trigger pull as compared with 4.5 lb for Glock 22. Similar to Glock, M&P 40 is striker fired and operates in 3 stages:

1. Trigger safety - Glock has center blade to release the trigger and M&P has hinged bottom 1/2 of trigger and this is released as soon as you place your finger on the trigger.

2. Striker/block - Unlike Glock trigger which pulls the pre-tensioned striker back more as the trigger is pulled with straight back movement, M&P trigger pulls back the pre-tensioned striker slightly with the blade part of the sear (back of sear) while the front round lobe rides on the trigger bar. This is the cause of the longer and heavier trigger pull than Glock. Filing down the back blade of the sear and reshaping the front of the sear lobe will decrease the trigger travel and pull to about 5 lbs and shorten the reset (M&P trigger job pdf). Polishing the trigger contact surfaces will reduce the pull to about 4.5 lbs.

3. Sear release - While Glock sear pushes back on the block and slides down, M&P sear rotates down on a pin. Flattening the back part of the sear will provide more flatter arc of travel and produce smoother striker pin release.

M&P's factory 7 lb trigger gives comparable light DA revolver trigger feel and most revolver shooters don't have problem with the factory trigger. Those used to lighter 4.5 lb Glock trigger will compare and complain that the trigger pull is longer, heavier, with longer/vague reset. M&P Pro models come with 4.5 lb trigger that has smoother, lighter trigger with shorter travel and reset. Apex Tactical makes drop in sear replacement for non-Pro models.


I have not shot the M&P 40 in comparison with SR40, but in comparison with G22 after the trigger job, it's like day and night. I have produced the fastest stage times for production class with G22 than about 35 different semi-auto pistols I have shot. After the trigger job, double taps with both full-size M&P40 and M&P45 is comparable to Glock 22 and produce smaller shot groups than G22/G21/G30.

 

[rbernie]

I have owned a bunch of M&Ps, and have slung a LOT of lead downrange thru them. They are nice, but I struggle sometimes to grok why they need to have such a sproingy trigger from the factory. I have avoided putting aftermarket bits into my M&Ps because I worry that the aftermarket bits are designed more for competition than duty use, and will prove less durable than factory bits. I also think that their backstraps are not quite right - I want the reach of the large backstrap with the 'swell' of the small.

I recently bought into the SR40 camp, and it has been more satisfying to me than the M&P in most every regard. Granted, I only have about 800rds thru the SR40 but it's been 100% reliable with my TC and SWC cast and plated handloads. I like its feel better (feels more solid and less flexible under recoil than the M&P), and I am more accurate with it than with the M&Ps. I really like the 'snap' of its trigger; it's service-heavy but breaks and resets really nicely.

I intend to make the SR40 my standard weekly range mule for the next year or so, and we'll see if I'm a positive on them then as I am now.

 

[Skylerbone]

I'd suggest buying a new large insert and having at it with your choice of tools. The large insert has a rather rubbery outer layer as opposed to the plastic like small (once cut) that lends itself to being whittled on. Mine fit well but I noted when wet it was too slick for my tastes so I added a starburst pattern with a rotary tool. There I said it. I Dremeled my M&P.

As far as the Apex parts the hard sear in my 40 full size has the highest round count and has retained its geometry while the 9c I purchased used already displayed wear to the OEM sear.

For duty use I'd recommend cleaning up the trigger bar to remove the grit and rounding over the striker block to eliminate the two-stage pull it imparts. Those two modifications should improve the feel dramatically without lightening the trigger to questionable levels.

I do look forward to further updates from all on the SR platform as I too was struck by the ergonomics and trigger pull on the sample I handled. As always, my concern leans toward reliability.

 

[mgmorden]

I worry that the aftermarket bits are designed more for competition than duty use, and will prove less durable than factory bits.

Most shots used in competition are shot far more than non-competition or duty guns. If anything, I'd say that being competition specific would imply greater durability, not lesser.

Also, Apex had two kits available - one is specifically a duty version and one a competition version, though the main difference that I'm aware of it just the pull weight (duty version is heavier).