S&W Model 19 (or 66) vs. 27

[friscolatchi]

girvin - nice guns. why don't you sell me one and buy some stain for that deck!

 

[girvin02]

That's actually the same gun in all of my pictures (only the grips were changed). That old deck needs more than just stain - it needs to be torn down and replaced. One of these days...

For now, it provides a good backdrop for gun pictures, as it makes for good contrast against the gun stocks.

 

[jad0110]

The 125 grain screamers are fun to shoot,so I haul out the GP100 by Ruger for those-you can bang away all day with that revolver and cause about zero wear.

Fun little tidbit.

A range down the road from me has got quite a few revolvers for renting, mostly .357 Magnum K Frames, a Tauri or two and a Ruger GP100. All were purchased back in the mid to late 80s, all have been fired about the same amount using the same ammo with the same lack of care.

Only one has had a problem in the prior 20+ years .... so guess which one recently blew a huge chunk out of it's forcing cone at the 6:00 position, to the astonishment of all?

Yes, that is probably an exception, but proof that even Ruger's GP is mortal.

Quote:
jad0110 From my understanding, the only durability drawback of the 27/28 is the heavy cylinder with it's higher rotational inertia in comparison to the K and L frame 357s. One should avoid a lot rapid firing with the 27/28 as it tends to wear the internal lockwork more quickly than on a K or L Frame, again because of the increased inertia of the bigger cylinder.

Huh?

Can you explain this?

It seems to me the forces of inertia come to a stop when the cylinder locks prior to firing. Whether it is shot one round or six in quick succession, the force of inertia is the same.

See post # 20:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=391832&highlight=S&W+Frame+strength

Again, I'm not 100% on this, but I respect Jim's knowledge quite a bit on such subjects. And he explains it much better than I do.

 

[dogtown tom]

Still doesn't explain how inertia magically increases when shooting one round DA vs. six in rapid succession.

I'm no mechanical engineer, mathematician or revolver expert, but I do know that inertia STOPS on a revolver cylinder when it locks prior to firing. There is no buildup of inertia as you fire more rounds. Can you (or anyone else) explain how it does?

Shoot 1,000 rounds in double action, two seconds between each shot.
vs.
Shoot 1,000 rounds in double action, as fast as you can.

Inertial forces on the cylinder, lockwork, etc will be identical. Wear will be identical.

 

[ThomasT]

I think what is meant by the inertial forces are that the rotational speed of the large heavy cylinder has to be stopped by the little bitty bolt stop. It will beat this part up after awhile. Especialy when cocked fast.

My shooting buddy likes to cock gun really fast and hard. When he shoots my Ruger 44 Blackhawk he snatches the hammer back as quickly as can be done. The bolt has to stop that heavy cylinder with all 6 of the 240gr bullets. I really need to have a talk with him. He does the same thing to his own guns so at least his is an equal opportunity gun abuser.

Those are really nice photos. I don't have a 27 but I do have a model 28. It belonged to my dad. I got it after he passed away nearly 6 years ago. I don't think he ever shot it. If he did it wasn't more than a box of rounds. Most likely a half a box. I have never shot it but I can say this. It is one slick gun on the action. I think the weight of the cylinder helps. Kinda like a flywheel.

 

[Radagast]

I've seen an N frame Outdoorsman in .38 special that had peening of the cylinder notches where they had slammed against the stop. The N frame cylinder was designed for .44 & .45 caliber holes. In .357/.38 it has thicker side walls, making for a stronger gun, but also a heavier cylinder. This has more inertia that has to be absorbed by the bolt and motch when the action is cycled fast.

There is a decent article on magnum induced wear of K frames here: http://www.gunblast.com/Butch_MagnumLoads.htm

 

[jad0110]

Perhaps it is not necessarily the speed of shooting, but how the trigger is pulled. You can shoot pretty fast while using a steady, squeeze of the trigger, like Jerry Miculek - who says he constantly runs the trigger at an even pace (while he is bringing the gun back on target, he is already cycling the trigger). Or you can jerk the crap out of the trigger for all it's worth like a noob, which I assume would increase the rotational speed of the cylinder at a much higher rate and result in a more violent hit against the cylinder stop.

 

[BCRider]

Exactly, a fast clutching of the trigger will increase the acceleration needed to spin the cylinder so that it can index to the next position. This will put more load on the hand to get the cylinder up to speed and when it slams to a stop it transfers more load to the cylinder stop and the portion of the frame that the stop rests against. Not to mention beating up the notches in the cylinder. There's not a lot of surface area in either of these cases so faster wear and peening can be expected if the revolver is used for very rapid fire a lot. I truly wish this was not the case but the evidence is there as shown by a lot of revolvers that have this sort of wear/damage.

But if you squeeze the trigger through the double action stroke even fairly fast you won't generate the same degree of acceleration in the cylinder and things should last a lot longer.

Having said this even JM when he shoots a cylinder's worth in his record time is pulling the trigger SO fast that the load on the hand and the cylinder stop are going to be pretty much the same as someone ripping off 6 shots as fast as they can using the fastest trigger work they can. If you shoot that fast often enough then accelerated wear and peening will occur, there's just no way around that.