S&W model 1917 information needed
- Thread starter DR1970
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Pat Riot
Contributing Member
According to this site:
https://oldguns.net/sn_php/mildateslookup.php
Your gun was made up n 1918. I just put 2 zeroes in place of the “X’s” in your serial number.
Looks like a nice revolver, DR1970.
https://oldguns.net/sn_php/mildateslookup.php
Your gun was made up n 1918. I just put 2 zeroes in place of the “X’s” in your serial number.
Looks like a nice revolver, DR1970.
LaneP
Member
Nice find, well done. That is a work of art.
BigBlue 94
Member
600-1200 depending on condition.
My Colt 1917 (same design) is in original, but very well used condition. I wouldnt take 800 for it, if I were inclined to sell.
My Colt 1917 (same design) is in original, but very well used condition. I wouldnt take 800 for it, if I were inclined to sell.
Coyote3855
Member
Wow, that's a very nice example of a 1917.
BigBlue 94
Member
And a 'workhorse' colt example for comparison. Notice the 9 digit number scratched on the side.
GeoDudeFlorida
Member
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Like everything else in life, it’s worth exactly as much as someone else is willing to pay for it.
commygun
Member
I don’t know the answer to your question but it’s freakin’ sweet! One in that condition is a grail gun of mine. Had a Brazilian that showed it’s age but was tight as a drum. Foolishly let go (of course).
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Good looking revolver and knife. Thanks for sharing the photos.
walnut1704
Member
Looks great. A little too great for a 100+ year old gun that was a military issue. But from the pics I can't tell if it's been refinished. But even if that's so it's still super-cool. If unaltered that's over $1,000 based on condition. If it's been refinished it's a shooter and still worth...$600? assuming mechanically it's good. That's just my wallet's opinion.
If it's refinished they did a good job. They didn't blue the hammer and trigger at least which is always a dead giveaway.
If it's refinished they did a good job. They didn't blue the hammer and trigger at least which is always a dead giveaway.
Thanks for the information. It hasn’t been refinished or altered in any way. It’s in good working order. I got it from a collector who had it for many years.
According to this site:
https://oldguns.net/sn_php/mildateslookup.php
Your gun was made up n 1918. I just put 2 zeroes in place of the “X’s” in your serial number.
Looks like a nice revolver, DR1970.
Thank you for the information and link.
In your opinion what is a ballpark value?
BigBlue 94
Member
Just realized this. The marking on the butt of the grip is not the serial number. At least not on Colt models. The real SN should be behind the crane on the frame.
Jim Watson
Member
It isn't a Colt with separate company and Army numbers.
The number under the yoke on a Smith of that era is a fitting number with no significance once the gun is completed.
The number under the yoke on a Smith of that era is a fitting number with no significance once the gun is completed.
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
Oh, I am not the guy to ask. I have no experience with these except for wiping drool off of them when I encounter them at gun shows.
walnut1704
Member
Looking at completed sales on gunbroker I'm going to stick with my previous guesstimate. One not quite as nice sold for $1,000 but a really nice Commercial production one sold for $1,300. Those generally do go for more. But it looks like it went for the "buy it now" so maybe it could have gone for more. I think the guy that got $1,000 got lucky and ran into the right buyer at the right time.
A lot of pictures would help. Or go ask over at the smith-wesson forum. They'd know.
A lot of pictures would help. Or go ask over at the smith-wesson forum. They'd know.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
That is incorrect. The Smith and Wesson Model 1917 is very different than the Colt Model 1917.
The Colt is a larger revolver, than the Smith, and their internal lockworks are completely different. About the only thing they share is the Model # and the cartridge they are chambered for.
At the top of this photo is a Colt New Service. This is the same frame Colt used for their version of the Model 1917. The arrangement of the trigger guard is slightly different on this New Service, the Model 1917 had the trigger guard gently blended into the rest of the frame. Notice how much larger the Colt is than the S&W Model 1917 below it. Not just barrel length, but the over all size of the frame.
Here is another photo of the S&W Model 1917. The grips are not original, but everything else is, along with the almost full box of 45 ACP ammunition on half moon clips that came with it. This Model 1917 left the factory in 1918. Just a four digit Serial Number, 98XX.
Except for very few models, S&W revolvers always had the serial number on the bottom of the grip. With a very few models, the SN was on the front of the grip frame because they had extended wooden grips that covered the bottom of the grip. I have covered over part of the SN in this photo, it is below the lanyard loop.
This one is unusual in that it has the very early GHS inspection marking on it instead of the Flying Bomb that came along a little bit later. This one also has an early grooved hammer.
I found this one in a local shop a number of years ago. Sorry, I do not remember what I paid for it.
BigBlue 94
Member
I suppose I knew the insides were different, but the cylinders themselves are basically the same correct? They do use the same moon clips.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Even the cylinders are different. The Colt cylinder is larger than the S&W cylinder.
In addition, A S&W Model 1917 can be fired without moon clips as the cartridges will head space on the chamber mouth. The chambers have a step down in diameter to rifle bore diameter and the case mouths will rest there if no moon clips are used. The empties would have to be poked out with a stack, yes I have done it.
Some, perhaps not all, Colt 1917 revolvers have the chambers bored all the way through with one diameter only. So those will require moon clips to prevent the rounds from falling directly through the chambers. I really do not know if yours can be fired without moon clips, curious if you have ever tried.
BigBlue 94
Member
Very interesting. I had read somewhere that Colt designed the pistol and SW designed the moon clips and the army/govt forced them to lend the patent rights to the other company for each to get production up. Hence the (incorrect) information that i gave.
I have tried to chamber ACP in mine without clips and the rounds fall well into the chamber. 45AR does of course work without clips.
Couple more pics of my Colt
With a 'twin' New Service in 38 WCF. Both are great shooters.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
The way I heard it was S&W approached the govt because they were pretty sure Colt would be busy cranking out 1911 pistols. It was fairly simple for S&W to adapt the already existing 44 Hand Ejector 2nd Model to 45ACP, it only involved opening up the chambers and bore slightly. So the way I heard it S&W first approached the govt about the idea of a 45ACP military revolver, before Colt did the same thing. That's the way I seem to remember it, don't have my reference books handy right now. No idea who came up with the idea of the moon clips.
BigBlue 94
Member
Ill believe what you say. Your knowledge supercedes what ive read on the webs. The colt was one of the first guns I got when my grandpa started unloading his collection on me nearly 20 years ago. Its always been one of my favorites and ive even carried it while camping on the Continental Divide in the Colorado Rockies.
As early as 1915, S&W was redesigning the 455 Hand Ejector to handle the 45 ACP cartridge. Chambering and firing the cartridge was really no problem. The hitch was ejection. The extractor slid right past the rimless case. S&W came up with two fixes, both clips. One held six rounds and the other held three. The Military realized Colt’s could not produce enough 1911s to satisfy the demand and turned to S&W to help. Given their choice, the Army board accepted the 45 ACP Hand Ejector and the 3 round clip. S&W allowed Colt’s to use the clip without royalty or infringement. (During the ACW S&W controlled the bored through cylinder patent and would not allow it’s use without suit. This, in the opinion of U S Grant extended the length of the war and caused more casualties. He held that against S&W. When President, Grant was not kind to S&W. S&W did not want to repeat history.).
Initially Colt’s did produce some revolvers with bored through cylinders. Not many and the majority had the cylinder replaced with a proper one either at the factory or by Unit Armorers.
Kevin
Initially Colt’s did produce some revolvers with bored through cylinders. Not many and the majority had the cylinder replaced with a proper one either at the factory or by Unit Armorers.
Kevin
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