S&W Model 21 classic questions

[fireside44]

Just stumbled across the Model 21 from S&W. Never had seen one before. I'm a recent convert to .44 special and have already moved my choice of revolvers in that direction.

Personally, I found the gun disturbingly beautiful:



Couple of questions will seal this deal for me:

1. Can it handle ".44 special +P" types of loads? I thought since the .44 mags Smith builds are "N" frames, that there wouldn't be a problem with some real burners out of this gun. Or am I mistaken? Is there a heat treat difference between .44 special "N" frames and .44 mag "N" frames?

2. How fast handling is an "N" frame Smith with a four inch pencil barrel? How much larger than a "K" frame? From what I could tell, it mainly appeared taller by a small amount.

3. If I can get one for $750 out the door, is that a decent deal? This should be a real good gun, no? It would be my most expensive revolver by almost $200. I'm looking for a lifetime investment in a choice piece without going overboard.

I wouldn't have asked but I spent all last night looking for a review of this gun besides the one on gunblast. Can anyone help me out here?

 

[rcmodel]

The gun will handle heavy .44 Spl loads, which are not nearly the same pressure as .44 Mag loads.
A 240-250 grain lead SWC at 1,000 FPS is entirely doable with hand-loads, or factory ammo from Buffalo Bore and others.
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=17

An N-Frame is way bigger then a K-Frame in cylinder diameter and is harder to CCW.
Trigger reach is also slightly longer.

I can't tell you how good a price that $750 is.

I can tell you that S&W never made a gun with a color-case hardened frame until those guns came out a few years ago, so it isn't truly a "classic".

rc

 

[gunnie]

"...1. Can it handle ".44 special +P" types of loads?"...

yes, but the fixed sights may prove less than desirable for dramatically different velocities. and/or even much variation in bullet weights.

gunnie

 

[fireside44]

A 240-250 grain lead SWC at 1,000 FPS is entirely doable with hand-loads, or factory ammo from Buffalo Bore and others.

The Buffalo Bore stuff says it runs up to 1,150 fps, so this is good.

An N-Frame is way bigger then a K-Frame in cylinder diameter and is harder to CCW. Trigger reach is also slightly longer.

Trigger reach is no problem. I can understand it's bigger and heavier, I just don't want something that is sluggish to bring into action. The gunblast review was favorable in regards to handling, but his reviews always seem to be favorable.

If someone can tell me how their "N" frame stacks up to other Smith frame sizes in terms of handleability and pointability that would be great.

I can tell you that S&W never made a gun with a color-case hardened frame until those guns came out a few years ago, so it isn't truly a "classic".

As "classic" looking as it might be, this purchase won't be about nostalgia much. I just want a good looking, great shooting, reliable .44 special that will last a lifetime.

 

[rcmodel]

Well I have a N-Frame 4 1/2" 1950 Target in .44 Special that weighs 2lb 4oz.
My 4" Model 66 K-Frame .357 weighs 2 lb even.

Add another 1/2" to the barrel of the 66 and they would be too close to call weight wise.

The very slight differance in weight is due to the bigger .44 holes removing more metal in the N-Frame barrel & cylinder.

Handling is just about the same with either one.

Probably more so now that S&W K, L & N all use the same round butt size grips now.

rc

 

[fireside44]

yes, but the fixed sights may prove less than desirable for dramatically different velocities. and/or even much variation in bullet weights.

I can deal with it. I've become accustomed to fixed sights. To be honest, it makes little difference to me if they are fixed or adjustable, just so long as the barrel is timed right!

I tend to be hard on my stuff so I prefer fixed sights.

Handling is just about the same with either one.

Hey RC, thanks for all the advice. Appreciate it. Sounds like it's what I'm after.

 

[Oro]

Is there a heat treat difference between .44 special "N" frames and .44 mag "N" frames?

The previous factory process and current conventional wisdom is that yes, the cylinders are still heat treated differently between the two. Properly loaded, the .44 Special is capable of some very good velocities and it's not really necessary to try to hot-rod it. If you really feel the need for more than a .44 Special can do, then you might really want a .44 Magnum.

2. How fast handling is an "N" frame Smith with a four inch pencil barrel? How much larger than a "K" frame? From what I could tell, it mainly appeared taller by a small amount.

Actually, that's just a "regular" barrel. S&W really only denotes "heavy" barrels as being different. That would just be a "standard" barrel and then the fat ones would be called "heavy." Just a terminology note. I'll post a photo below of a K, L and N side by side so you can see. The N is quite a bit larger in person and in the hand. Even in a 3" round-butt, the N-frame below weighs as much as a Colt Government Model.

The gun is going to handle fairly well, but in my opinion this is mostly because of the round butt. I have a 3" round butt N frame and it certainly handles much better than the 3.5" square butt pictured below. My dealer had one of these in nickel last summer for about, hmm, $500. They were not big sellers and saw some substantial discounts over the last year to get them sold. You might even try haggling some because of that. The case hardened variants were a hundred or two more than the blue and nickel ones as I recall.

Frame size comparisons:
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd275/kamerer/S-W/groups/IMGP5072.jpg

 

[calaverasslim]

I have one of the M21 Classics and love it. I can load some real barn burners in it and you can hear the bullet scream all the way to the target.

The only problem I had with this pistol is the grip. With factory grips, every time I fired it, the pistol would rotate almost 90 degrees. Makes it hard for a follow up shot. I replaced them with Ahrends and still wasn't happy. Bought some conversion grips (RB to SB) from Midway and it is a joy to shoot.

You should enjoy this one and The only issue I would have is the price.

Good Luck

 

[Oro]

The only problem I had with this pistol is the grip. With factory grips, every time I fired it, the pistol would rotate almost 90 degrees.

Yes, those grips aren't ideal. Some finger groove combats are great, too. I have those grips on a pre-war N frame and while decent looking reproductions, they are not terribly hand-friendly.