S&W repair stumper

Riomouse911

Riomouse911

Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
11,887
Location
Ca.
Hey all!

Back in July I shot my 6.5 S&W Model 624 no dash and I had the crane somehow bind up and make opening-closing really tough, the cylinder was harder to turn, etc. I am a S&W revolver armorer, and I showed the ‘smith the offending gun at the range, so we checked to see if the ejector rod was loose. No, all was tight. I checked to see if the cylinder was rubbing on the forcing cone, nope. We found no crud under the star, and we checked to see if the ejector rod was bent. It was not this either. A peel at the innards showed nothing was amiss and lube wasn’t an issue. We both were stumped.

I had a 686+ .357 mag that did this type of thing before, and it was diagnosed with a warped crane by the factory. I figured this might be the issue so I called S&W for a return label.

IMG_3279.jpeg IMG_3278.jpeg

I sent it to S&W and waited. Yesterday it came back. In the box was a baggie with some side plate screws and a rebound spring, along with a form letter with a box checked that said they didn’t do anything because the gun was too old and they had no parts.

IMG_3281.jpeg

I know someone at S&W did something because when I got it back the gun worked just fine. Upon closer examination I saw that the ejector rod wasn’t even finger tight, so it’s clear that at least the cylinder was taken down and looked at.

I do wish that something was written about what the tech did, even of it was just a tear down and exam. 🤔

I shot it today, this is about the best I can do shooting DA with the gun without using a rest and shooting SA. (215 gr SWC over 6.8 gr Unique at 12 yds.)

IMG_3289.jpeg

Anyone else ever have a gun returned from the factory with no idea what work (if any) was done to fix it?
 
.38 Special said:
My nightmare 22-4 (Thunder Ranch .45 ACP "Classic") went back twice for headspace issues and came back both times with a note that just said "Issue corrected", but with no details - and the problem still there.
Click to expand...
Ouch! That’s not good. Those TR revolvers are really sweet looking/shooting guns for sure.

I only put 50 through mine today, some powderpuff 175 gr TCFP/AA#5 loads and the 215 gr SWC.

So far so good, I hope whatever demons haunted it were exorcized with the trip back home. 🙏 Time will tell I guess.

Stay safe.
 
Given the liability issues involved, its unfathomable to me that they didnt include a copy of the repair order and tech notes. We sure as hell have to document everything we touch on a customers car in case it blows up or flies off the road. If we don't perform any work, we have to document that as well in case the problem returns.

Also, did they charge you for this "service" or was it covered under warranty?

My best guess is they fixed it this time gratis, but included that form to disuade you from sending it in again..... :scrutiny:
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Given the liability issues involved, its unfathomable to me that they didnt include a copy of the repair order and tech notes. We sure as hell have to document everything we touch on a customers car in case it blows up or flies off the road. If we don't perform any work, we have to document that as well in case the problem returns.

Also, did they charge you for this "service" or was it covered under warranty?

My best guess is they fixed it this time gratis, but included that form to disuade you from sending it in again..... :scrutiny:
Click to expand...
I paid for shipping there, the rest wasn’t invoiced.

I did have a Model 66-2 that I had to pay for fixing. That was around $120 bucks if I remember correctly.

Stay safe.
 
Riomouse911 said:
Hey all!

Back in July I shot my 6.5 S&W Model 624 no dash and I had the crane somehow bind up and make opening-closing really tough, the cylinder was harder to turn, etc. I am a S&W revolver armorer, and I showed the ‘smith the offending gun at the range, so we checked to see if the ejector rod was loose. No, all was tight. I checked to see if the cylinder was rubbing on the forcing cone, nope. We found no crud under the star, and we checked to see if the ejector rod was bent. It was not this either. A peel at the innards showed nothing was amiss and lube wasn’t an issue. We both were stumped.

I had a 686+ .357 mag that did this type of thing before, and it was diagnosed with a warped crane by the factory. I figured this might be the issue so I called S&W for a return label.

View attachment 1177366View attachment 1177367

I sent it to S&W and waited. Yesterday it came back. In the box was a baggie with some side plate screws and a rebound spring, along with a form letter with a box checked that said they didn’t do anything because the gun was too old and they had no parts.

View attachment 1177368

I know someone at S&W did something because when I got it back the gun worked just fine. Upon closer examination I saw that the ejector rod wasn’t even finger tight, so it’s clear that at least the cylinder was taken down and looked at.

I do wish that something was written about what the tech did, even of it was just a tear down and exam. 🤔

I shot it today, this is about the best I can do shooting DA with the gun without using a rest and shooting SA. (215 gr SWC over 6.8 gr Unique at 12 yds.)

View attachment 1177369

Anyone else ever have a gun returned from the factory with no idea what work (if any) was done to fix it?
Click to expand...
I had a model 57 in 41 magnum that I had to send back for repairs the pawl that turns the cylinder broke off they repaired it at no charge but there was nothing in the return box . On that note I had a Taurus Raging Bull in 44 magnum that was 15 years old I shot it to death until it broke called Taurus they sent me a mail label plus a form for my contact information. A few days later I got a email from them stating to call customer support called the next day, they told me the gun was not repairable, I said now what? The guy tells me they are honoring the lifetime warranty on the older legacy Raging Bulls he put me on hold came back on the line and tells me they still have some of these available and wants to know which one of these FFL dealers I am close to and that they are sending me a new one for no charge . He also told me why they couldn’t fix my old one and what was wrong I can’t say enough good things about Taurus I still have 2 of them.
 
Riomouse911 said:
I had the crane somehow bind up and make opening-closing really tough, the cylinder was harder to turn.
Click to expand...

Weird, as those, to me, seem to be 2 separate issues. Harder to turn while the cylinder is open or while the cylinder is closed?

Riomouse911 said:
In the box was a baggie with some side plate screws and a rebound spring
Click to expand...

Just a guess, but check those screws. One of those side plate screws is also the yoke screw. These older yoke screws didn't use the current spring/plunger design and had to be carefully fitted (and the correct screw has to be put in the correct hole while re-assembling). If it's too long, it would explain the hard opening/closing, but maybe not the hard turning. If it's bent, though, it could explain both, as it could be both binding the yoke while also pushing the cylinder too far fore or aft*.

Do you know which baggie screw was actually used as the yoke screw when it went back to S&W? Maybe pull the new yoke screw and compare it to the one in the baggie.

*this is assuming the answer to my first question is that the cylinder is also harder to turn while closed.
 
Last edited:
I would imagine there is documentation on internal repair orders, for them to refer to in case the gun comes back for future repairs or issues.

I don't imagine they worry about sending details to the owner because the average owner may not care or understand.
 
What was the endshake like earlier?

I purchased a Brazilian M1917 with a cylinder that was difficult to open and close unless I pushed the cylinder rearward slightly. It had a significant degree of endshake, and the opening/closing issue went away after I installed a shim from these guys.

Revolver Cylinder Shims Endshake Crane and Yoke Shims

TriggerShims Brand Manufactures End Shake Bearings / Cylinder and Yoke - Crane Shims for Colt, Ruger, Smith and Wesson, Taurus, Dan Wesson and other Revolvers
www.triggershims.com www.triggershims.com
 
Dave DeLaurant said:
What was the endshake like earlier?

I purchased a Brazilian M1917 with a cylinder that was difficult to open and close unless I pushed the cylinder rearward slightly. It had a significant degree of endshake, and the opening/closing issue went away after I installed a shim from these guys.

Revolver Cylinder Shims Endshake Crane and Yoke Shims

TriggerShims Brand Manufactures End Shake Bearings / Cylinder and Yoke - Crane Shims for Colt, Ruger, Smith and Wesson, Taurus, Dan Wesson and other Revolvers
www.triggershims.com www.triggershims.com
Click to expand...
It is surprisingly good for an older gun. I didn’t see any forcing cone/cylinder touching, but I did try a shim anyway. That didn’t seem to cure the illness. I still have several thicknesses left so I will try it again if endshake starts up or the cylinder starts touching the forcing cone.

Stay safe.
 
murf said:
the barrel may have turned. that would put pressure on the ejector rod, loose or tight. you have to look closely at the barrel rib/frame junction to tell if the barrel is turned.

luck,

murf
Click to expand...
I’ll check that. It isn’t pinned so that is certainly a possibility. Thanks! :thumbup:

Stay safe.
 
@murf offered an interesting possibility. When you indicated that opening & closing was "really tough", did you mean just initially getting it opened, and then just the final step of closing? Once opened, the cylinder/yoke moves normally through the rest of its arc?
 
If this is a 2 piece barrel I would bet @murf is on the money.

Without enhancing my blood pressure with the whole story I had a model 60 Pro that the outer barrel shroud kept turning. I would send it in and it would come back without a description of repair. 4 times total it went back. It was finally fixed and I sold it.

Recently I sent a Glock 44 in. It was a problem gun. It came back with a repair note that they replaced the rear slide cover. 🤨
It runs like a top now.

Perhaps @J-Bar is correct. The boss says “Fix ‘em, don’t write about ‘em.”
 
Pat Riot said:
If this is a 2 piece barrel I would bet @murf is on the money.

Without enhancing my blood pressure with the whole story I had a model 60 Pro that the outer barrel shroud kept turning. I would send it in and it would come back without a description of repair. 4 times total it went back. It was finally fixed and I sold it.

Recently I sent a Glock 44 in. It was a problem gun. It came back with a repair note that they replaced the rear slide cover. 🤨
It runs like a top now.

Perhaps @J-Bar is correct. The boss says “Fix ‘em, don’t write about ‘em.”
Click to expand...
No, it’s an older no-dash so it’s all one piece. It is post-barrel pinning though, so when I get a few minutes to spare I will check to see if it is canted to one side or the other. (I just looked at the website, it doesn’t look like S&W catalogs a Model 624 .44 Special anymore. ) 😞

Stay safe.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Given the liability issues involved, its unfathomable to me that they didnt include a copy of the repair order and tech notes. We sure as hell have to document everything we touch on a customers car in case it blows up or flies off the road. If we don't perform any work, we have to document that as well in case the problem returns.

Also, did they charge you for this "service" or was it covered under warranty?

My best guess is they fixed it this time gratis, but included that form to disuade you from sending it in again..... :scrutiny:
Click to expand...

S&W CYA'd themselves pretty good on paper. No matter what really happened, the form states the handgun wasn't serviced because the gun is obsolete and they don't have parts for it.

As far as the little bag of parts, management could easily deny sending those and claim it would be against a written company policy to do so.

CYA.jpg
 
Like Mr Borland said, look at the returned parts. They didn't return those parts for no reason. I think they are original to your gun, replaced in the repair action. Good suggestion to check the side plate screws lengths vs position.

As an aside, in the USAF we had an R390/A that blew fuses, usually at 2am. Several techs, including me, worked on it and could not get a repeated problem after replacing the fuse.

Last time took it off line and I just replaced the fuse with a 1 amp, (overfused) and left it. Next morning it had failed. When I took it apart, the burned wire in the harness was easy to trace. Someone in the past had replaced a screw with one that was too long and it went into the wiring harness. The wire was burned from the power supply to the point where the screw grounded it. It was intermittent because the short depended on the vibration from the blower in the rack.

Long explanation to check and make sure the correct hardware goes in the right place.
 
Last edited:
Well, all new production N-frames use MIM internals and have the firing pin in the frame rather than the hammer. I also don''t see any current .44 Spl. offerings (on the website anyway), so they may very well not have any appropriately machined cylinders or correctly marked barels.
Aside from springs, screws, and shims, I dunno there would have have been much they could do with it even if they wanted to. 😒
 
I picked up one of those 1st gen 657 Classic Hunters... 6.5" full lug barrel, unfluted cylinder. The barrel looked like it had been cut by a dull hacksaw, and it's performance showed. I sent it back in, they recut the barrel, and it came back a tackdriver.... I put 5 rounds in one hole with it first time back to the range. It seems like they included paperwork saying what they had done (turned the barrel down) but I will swear to this day that they did work on the action as well... it was a much different pistol when I got it back. I may still have the repair order upstairs, I'd have to look. I have sent other firearms back to the factory, for various things, and they always came back with a copy of the repair order and what they did. It's obvious they did SOMETHING... it would have been nice if they would have taken 5 minutes and wrote what they really did... so you would know.

Friend of mine sent his Kimber back to the factory... they test-fired it and said nothing was wrong and sent it back. I told him what was wrong, and what to tell them, but he didn't... and they didn't take the time to sleuth it out like I did.


MrBorland said:
When you indicated that opening & closing was "really tough", did you mean just initially getting it opened, and then just the final step of closing? Once opened, the cylinder/yoke moves normally through the rest of its arc?
Click to expand...

Interesting question...

As you say, they obviously had the cylinder apart... did you look for machining marks or anything?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

F
  • Locked
Just checking- S&W 686 plus
Replies
2
Views
546
roklok
R
F
  • Locked
S&W 431 Problem
Replies
0
Views
424
Fireatwill
F
F
  • Locked
S&W Model 29-2 help
Replies
16
Views
1K
Old Fuff
O
L
  • Locked
Cylinder Cramping on S&W model 19
Replies
15
Views
2K
M57
M
S
  • Locked
S&W 63 sprung yoke?
Replies
13
Views
482
ThomasT
ThomasT
Back
Top