S&W Revolver Internal Locks?

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Sure. An internal lock works fine - until it doesn't. No thanks. Murphy runs the universe. If anything can go wrong - it will - and at the worst possible time. And Murphy sure don't need no stinkin' help. There's already enough things that can cause a gun to stop working when you desperately need it to work. Adding more things is just dumb.
 
Drail said:
Sure. An internal lock works fine - until it doesn't. No thanks. Murphy runs the universe. If anything can go wrong - it will - and at the worst possible time. And Murphy sure don't need no stinkin' help. There's already enough things that can cause a gun to stop working when you desperately need it to work. Adding more things is just dumb.
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The mainspring works fine ... until it breaks. When I was a LEO and an assistant range officer I got to see lots of unusual problems with handguns. But, I still rely on one for protection.

Kevin
 
airweight

i have an airweight in 357. During first range trip, many years ago, it locked up. I returned to S&W and they replaced the frame; didn't tell me what the problem was.

Fired a few hundred more rounds over the years. Few months ago, the guy shooting next to me caught some shrapnel from my revolver. i inspected, found nothing wrong, fired a few more rounds ...... whack.... i was struck in the chest with shrapnel..... it hurt.

I returned to S&W and they replaced the barrel and cylinder. I am having the finish redone.... haven't gotten it back from S&W yet.

Anyone want to buy an airweight 357?
 
CraigC said:
Member Paul105, who does more shooting with 329's than most folks ever will with its all-steel counterparts, has experienced lock failures. On more than one gun, if I remember right.
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Based on reading I've done here and the S&W forum, that's exactly where the problems seem concentrated, around light for caliber guns. Certainly not all, but this thread seems to back that idea up a bit too.

I wonder if over lubrication contributes as well.
 
Had it happen twice with a 6" half lug 629. It was a range gun, so I didn't do anything about the first time. After the second time, I removed the lock.

As Craig C mentioned above, it happened twice, once each on 2 different 329s. Didn't know anything about it the first time. The first gun had a terminal flaw and S&W replaced it with a new one which also locked up once. Since the 329s were my everyday carry guns (I bought a 2nd as a backup), I removed the locks.

I have other S&Ws with the lock, including a couple of the new L Frame .44 Mags (M69s) and the lock hasn't been a problem. I won't carry a gun with the lock for personal protection - YMMV. As mentioned above, Murphy will dog you to your dying day.

FWIW,

Paul
 
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"Murphy will dog you to your dying day."

Not a good thing when self defense is on the line.
 
Part of the equation is, who uses the locks? I have removed locks and mag disconnects on all my guns. To me they are solutions looking for a problem.
 
Part of the equation is, who uses the locks? I have removed locks and mag disconnects on all my guns. To me they are solutions looking for a problem.
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  1. I don't own an S&W revolver with a lock. I doubt I ever will.
  2. The only gun I've ever owned with a magazine safety is my Browning Hi Power. The mag safety was removed within a week of me buying it.
My goal is to REMOVE potential points of failure, not accumulate them.
 
I have been working on and tuning DA revolvers for over 30 years and I have NEVER seen a mainspring "break". That's ridiculous.
 
I've owned several with the lock. Only have one now, but getting rid of the others had nothing to do with the lock. Never had a problem, but also admit that I never fired any particular one extensively. The one I've got now is a Model 69, 44 Magnum, but it get used exclusively with 44 Special type loads.

I carry a small Ruger semi, again, nothing to do with the lock. I just happen to shoot it a lot better than, and enjoy shooting it more than I do a small D/A revolver.

But in reality, I don't even think about the lock. It's just there, no different than any other pin or screw in the side of the gun. I can't even say I'd rather it not be there.
 
I bought a 686 seven shooter 11 months ago. I have put about 4k magnums thru it with no issues. I forget the gun even locks.
 
Instead of feeling defensive about having (7) guns with the ILS I had the Plug installed in all of them. I have enough guns to swear off buying more but I can't buy a 460 XVR without an ILS, so I guess I will be buying another Plug.
 
I participated in 460Kodiak's poll which was interesting.

Both of my IL guns did lock up on me. I still own both, and will not hesitate to fight with ether one.

The J frame only did it with MagTech +P .38's. All the other brands, and power levels have been fine.

The model 27 locked up while using a MBC 158 gn. load going at about 1,200 fps. Not a light load, but far from earth shattering. I did remove the lock on the 27, but I have not bought the plug for it yet.

If your firearm has not malfunctioned it has not been shot enough.
 
If your firearm has not malfunctioned it has not been shot enough.
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I consider the lock the equivalent of monkeying with the strain screw for a "lighter" trigger pull. Had a Smith 65 on which somebody'd done that.

It's better to REDUCE the opportunities for malfunctions than to multiply them to no purpose. Given that I live alone AND my guns not in use stay in a safe, the lock is all risk and no benefit.
 
Drail said:
Sure. An internal lock works fine - until it doesn't. No thanks. Murphy runs the universe. If anything can go wrong - it will - and at the worst possible time. And Murphy sure don't need no stinkin' help. There's already enough things that can cause a gun to stop working when you desperately need it to work. Adding more things is just dumb.
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Precisely - the lock is a mechanical widget that has NO actual benefit, increases manufacturing cost, and introduces an additional failure mode.
 
Precisely - the lock is a mechanical widget that has NO actual benefit, increases manufacturing cost, and introduces an additional failure mode.
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But as I recall, the company was bought by the designer/manufacturers of the lock.

By now, it's clearly an ego thing, as if whoever formulated "New Coke" had bought Coca Cola.
 
Never had a problem with the locks. I hate them but I'm not going to forward the "I know a guy I who knows a guy" myths. I've never heard them failing but I do what I can to buy guns without them.
 
Anyone else find it funny that nobody really complains about the Taurus locks?
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Nope.

As a matter of fact I don't think I have ever heard or read about complaints about the Taurus lock. It seems to be very reliable and, imho, the best location for a lock. What I like best about it is about it is both hands and fingers stay well away from the muzzle and barrel / cylinder gap while gipping the gun properly. I suppose a user could install a hammer without the lock if it really bothers them.

The S&W lock added several small separate parts to the action that can become loose vs. the Taurus design where all of the parts are contained in the hammer. Anytime you add more small parts to any mechanical device you increase the odds of failure which in self-defense gun is a "come to Jesus moment."

I have not heard much about the lock on Ruger revolvers. Maybe it is because they hide it under the grips most folks don't use or even think about it.

p.s. Actually I do have a complaint about the Taurus lock. I brought a new Taurus snubbie several years ago that was bone dry of oil out of the box. I did not bother to clean or oil the gun and just took it out to the range to shoot it. After firing two cylinder full of ammunition the gun locked up but tight. It was not possible to cock the action, open the cylinder and turn the internal lock. A few drops of CLP working their way down into the action and lock freed everything up and the gun has worked flawlessly ever since.

I posted this on THR and the Taurus haters were quick to criticize the gun as a piece of junk. Using 4 or 5 drops of oil on a new gun is too much to ask (don't ask me how they don't use oil on their semi-autos and keep them working reliabily). I took it as a teachable moment for me to clean and oil all new and new to me guns before going to the range to shoot it.

p.p.s. To help pass the time on a long boring holiday shift at work last night I spent several hours cleaning and soaking a new to me single action revolver that was bone dry of oil. I used G-96 and gave the inside of the action a good soaking along with it cleaning a surprising amount of grime off of the outside of the gun.

It has a long cylinder pin with the two notches in it so when it is pushed all the way in it prevents the hammer from hitting the primer when loaded. This is easily deactivated merely by shorting the cylinder pin.
 
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S&W's lock malfunctions are hardly a "myth" Mike. Amazingly some of the stuff your read on the internet is actually true. :rolleyes: S&W's lock is just another example stupid technology being forced upon you by the legal industry in a desperate attempt defray absurd lawsuits that should have been thrown out of court by any Judge with an IQ over 10. But there's BIG money to be "made" suing manufacturers. 'Murica. It's a bidness..... The good news is that there are plenty of old S&Ws for sale that are made to a higher level of craftsmanship without the stupid lock. They are the only ones in my collection and none of them are for sale.
 
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Drail said:
S&W's lock malfunctions are hardly a "myth" Mike. Amazingly some of the stuff your read on the internet is actually true. :rolleyes: S&W's lock is just another example stupid technology being forced upon you by the legal industry in a desperate attempt defray absurd lawsuits that should have been thrown out of court by any Judge with an IQ over 10. But there's BIG money to be "made" suing manufacturers. 'Murica. It's a bidness..... The good news is that there are plenty of old S&Ws for sale that are made to a higher level of craftsmanship without the stupid lock. They are the only ones in my collection and none of them are for sale.
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Yup, this sums it up nicely. I'm sure that S&W would be happy to sell all their guns without a lock today, as it's less expensive for them to mfg. Now that I think about it, I don't see them discounting those that they also offer without a lock, so I guess it's just another buck or two in their pocket. If they feel the need to comply with goofy laws in order to have access to a bigger market, I don't blame them.

From what I've seen, heard and reading between the lines though, it seems that the number of locks failing haven't been any greater than any other part of their production components failing. If it were so, I'm sure our legal brethren would be lining up with lawsuits galore.

I have some S&W with and without the lock; never had a problem with any of them and pay no attention to them either.
 
I was participated in the poll two years ago, 6 with no issues, still, and there are times when I use the locks. I'm also one of the few who actually carries a magnum wheelgun for personal defense because of where I live.

A well worn M29 Mountain, loaded for bear and rattlesnakes,

20150927_162954.jpg
44mag210GD1390fps0_750004.jpg

210gr Gold Dot @1390fps, 0.75", sure shoots faster DA split times than Ruger's Redhawk with its crap trigger, plus the M29 Mountain is smaller and weighs less.:)
 
Seems like it's getting to be more and more of a requirement these days. Eleven states have laws concerning firearm locking devices. Massachusetts is the only state that generally requires that all firearms be stored with a lock in place; California, Connecticut, and New York impose this requirement in certain situations. Other state laws regarding locking devices are similar to the federal law, in that they require locking devices to accompany certain guns manufactured, sold, or transferred. Five of the eleven states also set standards for the design of locking devices or require them to be approved by a state agency for effectiveness.


Connecticut
Illinois Handguns only
Maryland Handguns only
Massachusetts
Michigan
New Jersey
New York
Ohio
Pennsylvania Handguns only
Rhode Island Handguns only

No sure if they all require that the locks have to be integral to the firearms here, but it's an option as far as I know. In addition I believe there are also some local municipalities that have similar laws on their books. It's up to each of us to decide whether the methods approved by some states are the best.

God only knows what Barry has up his sleeve come Monday.
 
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