S&W Revolver won't fire in SA

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Rock Man

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Hand Ejector in .32-20 (Military and Police-?)

Works fine in DA firing.

Cocks in SA...but when I pull the trigger, the hammer only falls about 1/16th" and catches with a slight 'click'

The slightest backward pressure causes the hammer to release and fall the rest of the way.
 
Take the sideplate off and repeat the issue (while making sure the hammer is fully seated on its pin). Is it catching on the DA sear? If so, either the hammer or trigger (or both) are worn. Bubba has probably been in there before you. This will require professional help.
 
You will need to remove the sideplate, and there are videos how to do that. The pistol in this video does not have the bug screw, and the lockworks are different from yours.



You don't know what is going on till you take a look inside. I am going to offer that the lockworks are gummed up with old oil or grease and the hammer block mechanism is jammed. However, this is just one possibility, chipmunks could have stored nuts in the mechanism, or your pistol is the final resting place of Jimmy Hoffa.

Take a look at the pictures in this post by @Driftwood Johnson

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=540244&page=2

this is my Victory Revolver, may or may not have the same lockworks as yours

RmCAxv0.jpg

6IMPy0r.jpg

This pistol, the safety bar was sitting on top of packed and calcified original WW2 Cosmoline. I had to use a degreaser to clean everything out as the whole mechanism was gummed up.

Until you look, you won't know if you have a nut, or a Jimmy Hoffa problem. Or something else!
 
Taking the side plate off without relieving preload on the mainspring risks shearing the hammer pivot off the frame. The Brownells video would have been better if they advised relieving the tension on the mainspring before removing the sideplate.
The photo of the sideplate above my post shows the pivot very clearly. With that removed, the pin holding the hammer is in single-shear. While it is unlikely the pin will be broken off on a revolver frame in good condition just by removing the side plate, the stress on the pin is further increased by cocking the hammer and compressing the mainspring with the sideplate off. We're talking about an old hand-ejector in .32-20 of unknown condition here.
 
Also, it is foolish to use a plastic screwdriver handle as a mallet. It's fine for the gun, but do you really want dents and dings on your plastic screwdriver handle? They're prone to blistering hands even when they're smooth. If you're like me, you have good screwdrivers, and some junk ones. Don't use your good screwdriver handles as mallets. Use the junk ones or use a plastic mallet head.

The man in the video is using a Brownell's bit-holder they sell with their gunsmithing bits. I have the four bits they make that are specifically for screws on S&W revolvers. I passed on the bit-holders, but they look ok. The bits, however, are must-haves unless you grind your own to the correct width and thickness.
 
Howdy

The 32-20 Hand Ejector was a variation of the standard 38 Military and Police, but it was chambered specifically for the 32-20 (32WCF) cartridge.

This 32-20 Hand Ejector shipped in 1916. The last 32-20 Hand Ejector shipped in 1940, so it will not have the modern style hammer block in it, it will have the older style, as shown in Slamfire's photo. So ignore what the guy in the video said about removing the hammer block, the old style is pinned to the side plate and is not going to fall out. Also, ignore what he said about making sure the little step on the side plate fits where it is supposed to, your 32-20 Hand Ejector has a screw in that location, as you can see on my 32-20 HE.

pnHkcrhEj.jpg




Yes, it is not a bad idea to loosen the strain screw on the hammer spring before removing the side plate, but I have done it both ways.

You can use what ever you want to tap the frame to remove the side plate, I usually use the hardwood handle of a hammer. Never whack the frame with anything metal. I sometimes use a soft face hammer. The handle of a screwdriver will work well too, just do not try to pry the side plate off. Hold the revolver horizontally with the side plate up and your thumb on the side plate. Whack the frame lightly in the area where the grips are (which you previously removed) and the side plate should rise up of its own accord. Keeping your thumb on the side plate will prevent it from falling onto the floor.


This is what you are going to find when you remove the side plate. Not a 32-20 HE, but a 38 M&P. But the internals will be the same.

The two arrows on the left are pointing to the hammer block the one arrow on the right is pointing to a ramp on the hand.

The top arrow on the hammer block is pointing to a raised rectangular tab on the hammer block. The hammer block itself is made of spring steel, and in its normal resting position that tab will be positioned between the hammer and the frame, to prevent an accidental discharge in case the revolver is dropped on its hammer with a live round under the hammer. The lower tab on the hammer block is engaged by the ramp on the hand. As the hand rises to rotate the cylinder in double action mode, or as the hand rises when the hammer is cocked, the ramp will press the hammer block into its slot in the side plate, withdrawing the tab at the top from between the hammer and the frame. This allows the hammer to fall all the way, firing the revolver.

pm9bRcV8j.jpg




Not having your revolver in hand I cannot tell you exactly what is wrong, but you can carefully work the action and perhaps see what the problem is.

I WILL CAUTION YOU: THIS IS THE STYLE OF HAMMER BLOCK THAT FAILED ON A VICTORY MODEL REVOLVER IN A SHIPBOARD ACCIDENT IN 1944. THE REVOLVER FELL TO THE DECK AND DISCHARGED AND A SAILOR WAS KILLED.




S&W immediately redesigned their hammer blocks after that incident and installed this style of hammer block:

poDINUhbj.jpg

This is the style of hammer block that the guy in the video removed. This style has been inside every S&W revolver since 1944, but you will not find it in your 32-20HE.




WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW: It was eventually determined that hardened cosmoline inside the revolver involved in the shipboard incident had prevented the hammer block from functioning properly. The hardened cosmoline kept the hammer block withdrawn in its slot in the side plate, so it did not work properly to prevent an accidental discharge.

Be sure to clean out any old hardened oil in your 32-20 HE with a good solvent. BE SURE THE HAMMER BLOCK IS OPERATING PROPERLY. Finger pressure should depress it into its slot in the side frame, THEN IT SHOULD POP BACK SMARTLY WHEN THE FINGER PRESSURE IS REMOVED.

Reoil the parts lightly with a good quality gun oil before reassembling.

Just so you know, that style of hammer block was in many thousands of S&W revolvers before the shipboard incident. Generally speaking, it was reliable. Even so, you probably should be careful about dropping your revolver onto its hammer with a live round under the hammer.
 
Taking the side plate off without relieving preload on the mainspring risks shearing the hammer pivot off the frame. The Brownells video would have been better if they advised relieving the tension on the mainspring before removing the sideplate.
The photo of the sideplate above my post shows the pivot very clearly. With that removed, the pin holding the hammer is in single-shear. While it is unlikely the pin will be broken off on a revolver frame in good condition just by removing the side plate, the stress on the pin is further increased by cocking the hammer and compressing the mainspring with the sideplate off. We're talking about an old hand-ejector in .32-20 of unknown condition here.

I think that is a good warning and I hope I remember to relax the mainspring before popping off the sideplate. :thumbup:
 
Howdy

The 32-20 Hand Ejector was a variation of the standard 38 Military and Police, but it was chambered specifically for the 32-20 (32WCF) cartridge...

Wow!
Did you just sit down and write that for this post-?

Thank you -and the other gents for all your help!

I'll get on this (carefully) and let you all know how it turns out.
 
I WILL CAUTION YOU: THIS IS THE STYLE OF HAMMER BLOCK THAT FAILED ON A VICTORY MODEL REVOLVER IN A SHIPBOARD ACCIDENT IN 1944. THE REVOLVER FELL TO THE DECK AND DISCHARGED AND A SAILOR WAS KILLED.

You can bet accidental discharges had happened before, and probably killed before. The difference was, this happened to the US Navy, an entity large enough to fight a two ocean war and send the Japanese military and commercial fleet to Davy Jones locker.

When something that large informs a manufacturer that his product is too dangerous to issue, something about the product better change for the better.
 
Howdy

The 32-20 Hand Ejector was a variation of the standard 38 Military and Police, but it was chambered specifically for the 32-20 (32WCF) cartridge.

This 32-20 Hand Ejector shipped in 1916. The last 32-20 Hand Ejector shipped in 1940, so it will not have the modern style hammer block in it, it will have the older style, as shown in Slamfire's photo. So ignore what the guy in the video said about removing the hammer block, the old style is pinned to the side plate and is not going to fall out. Also, ignore what he said about making sure the little step on the side plate fits where it is supposed to, your 32-20 Hand Ejector has a screw in that location, as you can see on my 32-20 HE.

View attachment 1101461




Yes, it is not a bad idea to loosen the strain screw on the hammer spring before removing the side plate, but I have done it both ways.

You can use what ever you want to tap the frame to remove the side plate, I usually use the hardwood handle of a hammer. Never whack the frame with anything metal. I sometimes use a soft face hammer. The handle of a screwdriver will work well too, just do not try to pry the side plate off. Hold the revolver horizontally with the side plate up and your thumb on the side plate. Whack the frame lightly in the area where the grips are (which you previously removed) and the side plate should rise up of its own accord. Keeping your thumb on the side plate will prevent it from falling onto the floor.


This is what you are going to find when you remove the side plate. Not a 32-20 HE, but a 38 M&P. But the internals will be the same.

The two arrows on the left are pointing to the hammer block the one arrow on the right is pointing to a ramp on the hand.

The top arrow on the hammer block is pointing to a raised rectangular tab on the hammer block. The hammer block itself is made of spring steel, and in its normal resting position that tab will be positioned between the hammer and the frame, to prevent an accidental discharge in case the revolver is dropped on its hammer with a live round under the hammer. The lower tab on the hammer block is engaged by the ramp on the hand. As the hand rises to rotate the cylinder in double action mode, or as the hand rises when the hammer is cocked, the ramp will press the hammer block into its slot in the side plate, withdrawing the tab at the top from between the hammer and the frame. This allows the hammer to fall all the way, firing the revolver.

View attachment 1101462




Not having your revolver in hand I cannot tell you exactly what is wrong, but you can carefully work the action and perhaps see what the problem is.

I WILL CAUTION YOU: THIS IS THE STYLE OF HAMMER BLOCK THAT FAILED ON A VICTORY MODEL REVOLVER IN A SHIPBOARD ACCIDENT IN 1944. THE REVOLVER FELL TO THE DECK AND DISCHARGED AND A SAILOR WAS KILLED.




S&W immediately redesigned their hammer blocks after that incident and installed this style of hammer block:

View attachment 1101463

This is the style of hammer block that the guy in the video removed. This style has been inside every S&W revolver since 1944, but you will not find it in your 32-20HE.




WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW: It was eventually determined that hardened cosmoline inside the revolver involved in the shipboard incident had prevented the hammer block from functioning properly. The hardened cosmoline kept the hammer block withdrawn in its slot in the side plate, so it did not work properly to prevent an accidental discharge.

Be sure to clean out any old hardened oil in your 32-20 HE with a good solvent. BE SURE THE HAMMER BLOCK IS OPERATING PROPERLY. Finger pressure should depress it into its slot in the side frame, THEN IT SHOULD POP BACK SMARTLY WHEN THE FINGER PRESSURE IS REMOVED.

Reoil the parts lightly with a good quality gun oil before reassembling.

Just so you know, that style of hammer block was in many thousands of S&W revolvers before the shipboard incident. Generally speaking, it was reliable. Even so, you probably should be careful about dropping your revolver onto its hammer with a live round under the hammer.
Another bit of history along with mechanical lessons! Thanks again DJ for another great post. I learn a few new things with every one. :thumbup:

Stay safe.
 
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