S&W Victory Model Advice

[jt1]

I recently received this from my 85 year old uncle. SN V424XXX. I believe that dates to 1942-1945 according to SCSM 3rd. He was a Navy SeeBee during the war and says he thinks this was his issue weapon (his memory is not what it used to be) at any rate he has had this a long time, I remember seeing it when I was quite young. The only military markings are the ordnance flaming bomb, no US Property stamp. So, the question is could this have been his issue weapon? Is the holster correct? The holster seems to have much less wear than the gun. Does anyone know what the correct laynard would have been and a source for one? It is mechanically sound but the finish is poor. I am thinking of sending it back to S&W to have it redone to original (if they even do this anymore) or maybe somewhere else? Or should I just leave it alone? I plan to keep this in the family and restoration cost is not really a factor. Thanks for looking.



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[rcmodel]

Looks pretty authentic to me.
The holster is period, but may not be the one he carried in the Seabee's.

Leather gear had a very short lifespan in the south Pacific where many Seabees went. Constant mosture and Jungle rot would eat a leather holster in 6 months, and he could have went through more then one.

He could have had one with jungle rot for rough duty, and this nice one for dress occasions.

I would not recommend refinishing the gun.
It is worth more both from a sentimental as well as collector value if left original. Those little scratches & finish wear are battle scars! Don't mess with them!

The lanyard would probably be the M1942.
http://www.whatpriceglory.com/pic/M1942lanyard.jpg
Real ones are getting hard to find.

But it is unlikely your Seabee uncle used a lanyard anyway.
They tend to get hung up on things like bulldozer levers and hang you when you jump off.


rcmodel

 

[Gator]

+1 for leaving the finish as is.

 

[Will5A1]

Exceptionally nice find, even if the family histroy is a little fuzy, that is a treasure to have.

My opinion - leave it as is. That revolver has a history, and you would lose some of that history by refinishing it. That type of holster was made during WWII and after the war, and still in use in the early 1980's by Army female MP's - the gate guards at Edgewood Arsenal, MD, had Victory's and Model 10's in those holsters when I was billeted there in '82 - '83.

Pate mentions in his book (US Handguns of WWII, Secondary Pistols and Revolvers) that some Victory's were delivered under US Navy Contracts with no government markings, and that could be the case here. If it were mine I'd get it lettered by the factory.

If possible please consider getting your uncle to tell you as much about his experiences in the Navy and the S. Pacific as possible and record them. Preserve as much of his wartime service for the future as you can. Thnaks for posting it.

 

[wcwhitey]

Everything looks period to me! Thank your Uncle for me! I would just look funny speaking Japanese.

 

[Dienekes]

Looks pretty straight, honest, and functional to me. I would leave it alone--doubt S&W would work on it as they have a cutoff date somewhere in the 1960s for service of any sort nowadays.

I carried one of those in the USAF in the '60s, and bought one from an estate later on. Actually they are nice little guns and very well made--just not fancy.

The stocks were oil finished. Yours look varnished.

The holster is the correct model (I have several which are excellent field holsters for S&W K frames and Ruger Security Sixes) but I suspect it is newer than the gun, possibly postwar. I think the WWII versions were natural or brown finish. The rivets look like a newer style, and I think the number on the holster is an NSN number. There is a book by Meadows--hard to find, wish I had one--on US military holsters.

These little Victory Models are getting to be a popular secondary US issue collectible. All in all yours is a nice piece with family history.

My first partner was a Seabee--on Guadacanal.

 

[critter]

I have an identical twin to yours (no leather) except mine has "U. S. Navy" marked on the topstrap. NICE find!

Don't monkey with it! Leave it as is-it is history!

 

[jt1]

ALL - Thank for the info and insight. The finish will remain as it is. I have started looking for a period pistol belt and lanyard to complete the set, and any tools or accessories that may have been issued as well. I'll post a pic when it is complete.

 

[Pistol Toter]

Is that rust forming?

Fellows am I seeing some fine rust? If so, would some oil and fine soft brass pad and maybe Flitz hurt / disturb that Parkerized Finish? If not, perhaps it should be cleaned up and oiled real well are even waxed so as to preserve it. That's nice looking old gun and it surely would be a shame to let the rust get a toe hold on it. Just a thought.

 

[jt1]

Yes, there was surface rust over the forward frame and barrel and some inside the bore. The gun had been stored inside the holster. I cleaned it up with an oily rag. The front part of the frame on the left side was machined a bit rough and has some very minor pitting. I figure to just keep it well oiled. Any other recommendations? Thanks.

 

[Pistol Toter]

JT, I posed several questions in my post. They were for your benefit. I am hoping that some of the others who maybe more familiar than I about that old Parkerized finish. As others have said I would not refinish the ole girl but take care of her and cherish it as for what it is, your grandfather service revolver. My concerns are to stop or limit any further damage. DO NOT store the gun in a leather holster. Limit how much oil you apply around the stocks, as the oil tends to make the wood soft. Personally, me, I remove the stocks from my safe queens, stoing them in a zip lock bag with the screw tapped to an index card that contains all the pertinent information about the gun they came from. The gun is generally cleaned very well, oiled and also placed in a zip lock bag. Each gun is checked every three months. The rust in the bore needs immeadiate attention. If you are going to remove the stocks, do so carefully and slowly; they maybe fairly well stuck. Use a well fitted screwdriver and losen the grip screw. Before it is all the way out, preferably with several threads still holding (this is to prevent thread damage on the screw and in the ecustion) push on the screw thereby pushing the stock from the stock / grip pin that is part of the grip frame. Once you have that side off then you can work on the other side going through the frame. Look on the right panel for either a stamping or pencil or crayon notation. Check that number, if present, against the number on the bottom of the grip frame. If those numbers match, you have the orginal stocks. What a plus! If that notation is in pencil or crayon DO NOT do this next step because it will wash away. But if stamped; I use MURPHYS OIL SOAP, you might wash the stocks (don't drown them by leaving them in the water, you're just washing the surface oil away). Dry them real well and let them air dry like over night. I then apply a thin coat of Johnsons Past Gym Wax, allow to haze and buff. Then store as above. Right down or record anything that your graddad can tell you. And I mean anything and everything, once he is gone it is forever lost. He has MUCH wisdom and knowledge to impart. Oh, don't laugh at anything he says that sounds unusual. (As a boy raised on a farm, I experience some wonderful and unusual things.) Listen and take it all in. You have a nice piece of history there. Do some research and take care of it.

 

[XavierBreath]

That's a nice Smith & Wesson Victory Model revolver. I would never refinish such a revolver, especially considering the family history. The original finish was parkerizing, and the firearm was not polished at the factory prior to finishing. Smith & Wesson will no longer parkerize firearms. I would leave it just as it is, and keep it oiled. If you refinish it, it will be just another refinished Victory Model. Leave it like it is, and it has history. I would store it outside the holster. The tanning solutions used in holsters can cause pitting and other problems.

It looks like you have the correct lanyard loop in place. Lanyard loops can be found here. Any pin sized to fit will hold it in place. Remove the grips, and you will see the hole running through the frame that holds the lanyard loop in place. While you have the grips off, check inside them for a matching serial number. Chances are, it's stamped in there. There should also be matching serial numbers underneath the barrel, and on the reverse of the cylinder. :banghead: I see now you are looking for the lanyard, not the loop. A period Navy pistol belt would have been olive drab canvas with blackened brass looped buckles. These were commonly known as "Booger Belts". The Navy used white belts as well, but I'm guessing a SeaBee would have had OD.

The lack of a US Property mark is not problematical. It would enhance the revolver, but some fellows stateside got U.S. Defense Supply Corporation revolvers. Some of those unmarked DSC Victory Models went overseas when units shipped out. It is not unlikely a SeaBee might have such a revolver. In addition, after the war it was not uncommon for a side arm to be "sea bagged" home. In that instance, the "US Property" mark along the top strap might have been removed out of fear of reprisal. Same goes for the lanyard loop.

I agree with Will5A1. Get an oral history to accompany this revolver. Obtain your uncle's rank and any other memorabilia he may want to turn loose of. Take a good quality photo of him holding the revolver.

I would recommend getting this revolver lettered by Roy Jinks. For $30, he can tell you exactly when it left Smith & Wesson, and where it shipped to. A letter from Roy is the best investment you can make to enhance a S&W revolver.

The value of unmolested Victory Models is going up fairly quickly. Even though they were once plentiful, they are becoming scarce. Many were destroyed after the war. Smith & Wesson had a clause in the military contract with the U.S. Government that these revolvers would be destroyed rather than surplused out. This prevented Smith & Wesson from floundering in a post-war gun market flooded with their own revolvers, as had happened after WWI with the M1917. As a result, when the military retired them, they went to other government agencies. Some have been surplused from those agencies, but many have been crushed and cut to pieces.

Point of interest: These revolvers were still being used in the 7th Fleet (West Pac) as late as 1991. S&W Victory Model revolvers were issued from the USS Midway to aviators in my squadron, VFA 151, for Desert Storm. The flyboys did a group order of Glocks and carried those instead. I would not be surprised to learn the US Navy still has some in use.

Ah heck........Here are two of my Victory Models.

 

[Pistol Toter]

JT, I posed several questions in my post. They were for your benefit. I am hoping that some of the others who maybe more familiar than I about that old Parkerized finish. As other have said I would not refinish the ole girl but take care of her and cherish it as for what it is, your grandfather service revolver. My concerns are to top or limit any further damage. DO NOT store the gun in a leather holster. Limit how much oil you apply around the stocks, as the old tends to make the wood soft. Personally, me, I remove the stocks from my safe queens, stoing them in a zip lock bag with the screw tapped to an index card that contains all the pertinent information about the gun they came from. The gun is generally cleaned very well, oil d and also placed in a zip lock bag. Each gun is checked every three months. The rust in the bore needs immeadiate attention. If you are going to remove the stocks, do so carefully and slowly; they maybe fairly well stuck. Use a well fitted screwdriver and losen the grip screw. Before it is all the way out, preferably with several threads still holding (this is to prevent thread damage on the screw and in the ecustion) push on the screw therby pushing the stock from the stock / grip pin that is part of the grip frame. Once you have that side off then you can work on the other side going through the frame. Look on the right panel for either a stamping or pencil or crayon notation. Check that number, if present, against the number on the bottom of the grip frame. If those number match, you have the orginal stocks. What a plus! If that notation is in pencil or crayon DO NOT do this next step because it will wash away. But if stamped; I use MURPHYS OIL SOAP, you might wash the stocks (don't drown them by leaving them in the water, your just washing the surface oil away). Dry them real well and let them air dry like over night. I then apply a thin coat of Johnsons Past Gym Wax, allow to haze and buff. Then store as above.

 

[jt1]

ALL - Thanks again! The SN on the frame, barrel, cylinder, ejector star and the inside of the grips (stamped into the wood) all match, as do the assembly numbers on the crane assembly and inside frame housing. It does not appear that any markings were ever on the top strap. As mentioned by Dienekes the grips do appear to be varnished as there is some reside on the inside edges them. I will continue to carefully clean the rust areas and will send for the factory letter.