SA 1903, 1903A3 questions
- Thread starter Citadel99
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cookhj
Member
the '03 has a "v" notch rear sight that is graduated out to 2000yds (i believe) whereas the '03A3 has a peep rear sight that's graduated out to 600 yds.
$400 is good only if it's a high serial number. supposedly the lower serial numbers aren't as strong (some will disagree, but it's better to get a high number just in case).
i don't know about the C&R status.
$400 is good only if it's a high serial number. supposedly the lower serial numbers aren't as strong (some will disagree, but it's better to get a high number just in case).
i don't know about the C&R status.
I'm no expert, I don't even play one on TV,
the main difference is the sights
ladder vs peep look closely at the pics on the CMP website and you'll see
As far as being a good deal definitely. I did my Garand and 03A3 order at the same time and I love em both. I think that it's the best deal out there.
here's a picture of mine straight out of the box
the main difference is the sights
ladder vs peep look closely at the pics on the CMP website and you'll see
As far as being a good deal definitely. I did my Garand and 03A3 order at the same time and I love em both. I think that it's the best deal out there.
here's a picture of mine straight out of the box
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cookhj
Member
i forgot to add, mine is an '03A3 just like 1A271's.
cookhj
Member
i didn't think there were that many petersen devices out there in private hands. i thought that almost all of them were destroyed.
cdbeaver
Member
I knew a fellow who lived in Lincoln, Nebr., who had, I believe, seven Pedersen devices! Including one with Russian markings.
That was about 40 years ago. Don't know what happened to him or the devices.
That was about 40 years ago. Don't know what happened to him or the devices.
jobu07
Contributing Member
Not to redirect the thread, but what are these Pedersen devices? Forgive my ignorance.
cdbeaver
Member
Pedersen devices were little mechanical devices that replaced the regular bolt and fired small, pistol-sized cartridges (about 7.62 Luger sized) semi-automatically.
They were supposed to be the "secret weapon" that would win WWI for the allies, but were made a day late. I think they held about a 30-round magazine that canted about 75 degrees upward to the right. Expended brass was ejected through an elongated port cut into the left side of the bolt race.
I had one of those Springfields with the Pedersen ejection port. Seems it also had some extra parts attached that related to the device, but can't remember much about them except that they all seemed to be on the left side of the receiver. Proabably had to do with attachment to the rifle.
Almost all of these rare devices were destroyed after the war. When I was collecting cartridges, Pedersen device ammo was fairly common, though I imagine it is less so today.
They were supposed to be the "secret weapon" that would win WWI for the allies, but were made a day late. I think they held about a 30-round magazine that canted about 75 degrees upward to the right. Expended brass was ejected through an elongated port cut into the left side of the bolt race.
I had one of those Springfields with the Pedersen ejection port. Seems it also had some extra parts attached that related to the device, but can't remember much about them except that they all seemed to be on the left side of the receiver. Proabably had to do with attachment to the rifle.
Almost all of these rare devices were destroyed after the war. When I was collecting cartridges, Pedersen device ammo was fairly common, though I imagine it is less so today.
I have a Mark I and am asked about the second smaller ejection port !! The Pederson device consisted of a bolt and magazine and metal scabbard . The cartridge was similar to the 32acp. See "Hatcher's Notebook " for a complete description. All were supposed to be destoyed but some survive. It wasn't very practical and soldiers considered it excess baggage and some disgarded it.
bmwguy
Member
The 03 had more forged parts, whereas the 03a3 had more stamped parts.
Sunray
Member
Citadel99. Hi. The biggest advantage of buying from those evil people at your CMP is that you know the rifle will be safe to shoot. The head space will be ok and the rifle will generally be in shootable condition. Although you have no guarantee that it will be in great condition. However, the CMP will take back anything you don't like and will attempt to rectify the sale. They understand the term 'customer service'. Think Remington or any of the high numbered 1903 rifles. If you buy one, you'll soon be back to buy the other. I have an 03A4 and desparately need an 03 and 03A3. They're scarce, high priced and in crappy condition when you see them up here.
The best site to get recent info from people who have bought from them is over at www.jouster.com. Most of the guys swear by the CMP.
Oh, and they're evil because I'm in Canada and your CMP has some silly rule that requires a buyer to be a US citizen. Like my US dollars aren't good enough. We have nothing like the CMP. Our government destroys ALL military surplus firearms.
The best site to get recent info from people who have bought from them is over at www.jouster.com. Most of the guys swear by the CMP.
Oh, and they're evil because I'm in Canada and your CMP has some silly rule that requires a buyer to be a US citizen. Like my US dollars aren't good enough. We have nothing like the CMP. Our government destroys ALL military surplus firearms.
DMK
Member
Sunray, it's not that your money isn't good, that they don't like Canadians, or that they have something against you personally.
The CMP (or DCM) was created by the U.S. government to distribute surplus military rifles to U.S. citizens to improve their marksmanship. This is the reason for the club membership and competition shooting requirements. The rational is to allow our military to have a larger number of marksman to draw from in defense of the country. Now, training citizens from other countries to be better marksman kind of goes against the charter. (Although, they maybe should have allowed Canadians. We know you guys are right there along side us in our mutual defense).
Hutch
Member
Yep, $400 for an 03A3 is a good price. Depending on the condition of the rifle you draw, it might be a great price.
Clemson
Member
Regarding the '03 vs. ')3A3 question, I couldn't decide either......... so I did the only honorable thing. I bought one of each. I have a 1918 1903 rifle and a 1945 1903A3.
The '03 is much more carefully made and finished than the '03A3. It has milled parts vs. stamped parts. Its sight is adjustable up to about 2850 yards vs the '02A3 roughly 1000 yards (I think -- someone will correct me. I don't have the rifle with me now). The '03 sight actually has 3 notches and two apertures that you can use. It is a thing of beauty. The barrels on '03's are 4 groove barrels whereas most of the '03A3 barrels were made as 2-grove barrels as a wartime expedient. The aperture sight on the '03A3 is not as good as that on a Garand, nor does it have the range of adjustment that the '03 has, elevation OR windage.
Functionally and practically, the two are the same rifle. If I could only have (shudder) one, it would be a Springfield-produced 1903. After all, we call it the "Springfield Rifle," don't we? Fortunately, I was able to get both, and I am happy with them. $400 is a very good price for a rifle that is pretty much ready for issue to front-line troops. There is plenty of grease, cosmoline, etc., on the pieces -- more than what I found on my Garands, but that just means that they are well-preserved.
Clemson
The '03 is much more carefully made and finished than the '03A3. It has milled parts vs. stamped parts. Its sight is adjustable up to about 2850 yards vs the '02A3 roughly 1000 yards (I think -- someone will correct me. I don't have the rifle with me now). The '03 sight actually has 3 notches and two apertures that you can use. It is a thing of beauty. The barrels on '03's are 4 groove barrels whereas most of the '03A3 barrels were made as 2-grove barrels as a wartime expedient. The aperture sight on the '03A3 is not as good as that on a Garand, nor does it have the range of adjustment that the '03 has, elevation OR windage.
Functionally and practically, the two are the same rifle. If I could only have (shudder) one, it would be a Springfield-produced 1903. After all, we call it the "Springfield Rifle," don't we? Fortunately, I was able to get both, and I am happy with them. $400 is a very good price for a rifle that is pretty much ready for issue to front-line troops. There is plenty of grease, cosmoline, etc., on the pieces -- more than what I found on my Garands, but that just means that they are well-preserved.
Clemson
Swamprabbit
Member
Looks like enough has been said on the differences between the two. I have one of each and I prefer the A3 version. I think it is considerably more of a practical rifle than the 03 just because of the sights. The 03 sight, when folded down to the "battle sight", is supposed to have its point of impact (POA) set to 540 yards. Hardly standard hunting/target setting. If you raise the ladder up for adjusting, you have a fragile and complicated sight (IMHO) to use. The A3's rear peep is made for shootin'.
My A3 is a late model Remington with the 2-groove barrel and actually out-shoots my late model (1928) SA 1903. The stamped parts may not look as "refined" as the 03's milled parts but they definetly fit and are functional.
Just my $0.02 worth.
My A3 is a late model Remington with the 2-groove barrel and actually out-shoots my late model (1928) SA 1903. The stamped parts may not look as "refined" as the 03's milled parts but they definetly fit and are functional.
Just my $0.02 worth.
Schiessuebung
Member
FWIW, NRA's American Rifleman magazine, June 2003 issue (p.58-61, 71) ran a feaure article on the Pedersen Device. The author quotes a 40-round magazine inserted at a 45-deg. angle.
Would have given our guys one hell of an advantage in the trenches and crossing No Man's Land, if only it had been developed sooner.
IIRC the same author (Bruce Canfield) had another article published earlier that year about the 1903 Springfields. Damned if I can find it, though.
Anyone else out there remember it?
Would have given our guys one hell of an advantage in the trenches and crossing No Man's Land, if only it had been developed sooner.
IIRC the same author (Bruce Canfield) had another article published earlier that year about the 1903 Springfields. Damned if I can find it, though.
Anyone else out there remember it?
30Cal
Member
For good reading on the Springfield in action, find a copy of Thomason's Fix Bayonets!
I've seen a handful of Pederson devices listed for sale recently. The going rate is $25,000+.
Most people prefer shooting the 03A3 because the rear sight is easier to deal with. I think also that the M1903 had to be fired w/ the battle sight for the rapidfire stages (which means you're holding pretty far below the target).
Ty
I've seen a handful of Pederson devices listed for sale recently. The going rate is $25,000+.
Most people prefer shooting the 03A3 because the rear sight is easier to deal with. I think also that the M1903 had to be fired w/ the battle sight for the rapidfire stages (which means you're holding pretty far below the target).
Ty
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