Safe Owners: Key Pad or Combination and Why?

[Zak Smith]

Umm, you guys all know that the electronic keypads on big gun safes have external batteries, right? That means you can replace the battery without opening the safe and without knowing the combination.

I guess I am not much concerned with an EMP taking out my safe.

Keypad all the way.

 

[heypete]

I choose the keypad due my being able to more quickly open it, which is nice when I open it 3-4 times a day. Dial combinations can get tedious.

I'm not concerned with battery life -- batteries last a really long time and keypads don't use much current at all. A quick battery tester can tell you how much power is remaining.

I use a Duracell right now, but if I get concerned, I'll just get an Ultralife lithium battery that should last about 10 years.

I'm honestly not concerned about an EMP. In the event that such an event occurs, I have a power drill (not plugged in, shouldn't be affected by an EMP) and can cut into my RSC in an hour or so. I could probably cut through it with a knife and/or hammer if I had a day or two to work on it.

In the event that civilization would collapse, I think I'd have enough time to open my Cannon safe and extract the guns. That said, it's not something I'm genuinely concerned about. The keypad makes life a lot easier.

 

[Ryder]

I have become farsighted with age. Can't read combos. Keypad numbers are big enough I can see them without having to search for a magnifying glass.

Smoking fast! Bibip - bibip - bibip bip.. BOOM

Takes me 3 seconds to open the door.

 

[cngerms]

Keypad Mathematics

My girlfriend brought up the point of a keypad wearing down after use to the point of someone being able to see which buttons you push.

I think my mathematics is accurate. Let's say your keypad combination is 6 digits and the keypad is showing enough wear that a burglar CAN tell which 6 buttons you are constantly pushing. If that is the case, then:

1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6 = 1/46656. The burglar has 1 in 46,656 chance of getting the combination right the first time. That's a .00214% he'll get it right the first time OR another way of saying it is, "there are 46,656 possible combinations" with a six-digit code. REMEMBER, six digits are ONE thing; the order of the 6 digits is ANOTHER. If the burglar entered 1 code every second, it would take him almost 13 hours to do so provided he accurately kept track of each 6-digit combination he entered without erroneous repeats. This makes the probability of entering 1 unique code every second highly improbable.

 

[CountGlockula]

Keypad...when the BG is right behind the door.

I got a GunVault MiniVault. Finger pad combination help you open the door much quicker than a combo. Batteries don't worry me; since there's a low battery indicator.

 

[dust_101]

Combo....

Have to be prepared, my safe can (and does) hold all my guns but the 12ga under the bed (no kids yet) and there is room in there for some pillows to cushion the sides and keep some O2 and H2O so that when the EMP/Nuke hits I can hide in there. OR if a tornado comes and does a dorothy on my house I can dive into the safe and let it carry me wherever the winds take me. How do i get out? I have the following carved into the outside of the safe: "If found please knock 5 times (not 1, not 2, not 3, but 5) and if you hear 5 return knocks, please ask for the combination to the safe and it will be provided via morse code and you can kindly let me out, thank you."

 

[DirksterG30]

I've got one of each - most handguns go in a keypad safe for quick access, long guns, spare ammo & the rest of the pistols go into a much larger combo safe.

 

[Gbro]

My safe came with a S/G keypad lock, being a tad bit lisdexict, the keypad would offer me some relife. It (it) didn't, I had a bad one. for the most part i had no trouble, do it a couple times big deal. like dialing the phone, I re-enter after the apoligy. Changing the combo or adding another user was about a successful as doing the phone card thing. When my daughter finaly had he combo, and she struggled, I called S/G and found my locks garrentee was exspired. So its on the shelf in the closet in case someone needs a keypad as the lock is defective. It will open, sometimes in one or two attempts, but sometimes 7-8 are needed.
Now this is the kicker, I would try 3 times and then according to the inst. the lock wouldn't operate for 15 min. Then one day i realized that i was using the master code and it is always active in the model i have.

Well my safe has a Combo on it, and i feel a little more at ease,(you never want the stress of not being able to fondle one of your adoped family members when the need arises). But how i miss the keypad, I hate the dial. Thank you to the poster that reminded me about the shortcut in the combo setup I will look into that this weekend.
Knowbody cautioned the boar about the "Relockers". This is a dead "DEAD" bolt that will release if any attempt is made to dislodge your combo, or electronic locking mechanisum. once this dead bolt ib activated you will proble need to have your safe "Pealed" to gain entrance. Also, Never fiddle with your combo without a board or simular blocking the door from closing, you whant to try your new combo several times before the door closes.
I miss the convenence of the keypad!
And its not a good practice to spin a dial on the combo, once the friction is lost, you could be in trouble with that too.
A good friend of mine has two safe's bought @ same time. One combo lock failed, (same combo for both) before the smith could get to him the second one had failed. His bad habit of spinning the lock was the problem(according to the smith). A little adjusting and scolding and he is all smiles again.

Gbro

 

[heypete]

This makes the probability of entering 1 unique code every second highly improbable.

That, and most electronic locks have a "wrong combination penalty" that prevents even the valid combination from being entered for a time period after a certain number of incorrect combinations were entered.

My LaGard lock on my Cannon RSC locks out for five minutes after three wrong entries. That'll slow folks down a whole heck of a lot.

 

[cngerms]

That, and most electronic locks have a "wrong combination penalty" that prevents even the valid combination from being entered for a time period after a certain number of incorrect combinations were entered.

My LaGard lock on my Cannon RSC locks out for five minutes after three wrong entries. That'll slow folks down a whole heck of a lot.

HA! That's right, Pete! I forgot all about the penalty delay. I think my S&G keypad locks me out for 15 minutes after 4 screw-ups. Additional screw-ups during the penalty period only prolong the delay, too. Instead of 13 hours, it would probably be closer to 13 days.

Good job, my friend!
Jeff

 

[Dionysusigma]

Combination with a cyalume glowstick taped to the side of the safe.

 

[Ryder]

Keypad Mathematics

And on the other side of the aisle I once got into a combination safe by simply eavesdropping on the first number that was dialed (I had property being kept in there). Took me three tries to be successful since the guy didn't know enough to spin the dial when he relocked which gave me the third number. I only had to guess the middle number.

 

[Maximum1]

key pad its quicker...

 

[msb45]

Keypad Math 2

No intent to be contrary but I think the key concept is the number of permutations available to you with a 6 digit combination. There are 720 permutations so the probability is 1/720 or about .14 %. Sure beats the lottery. 4 numbers have 24 permutations or a 4.2% chance/try, at 3 tests per 15 minutes that's 2 hours.

Also I would advise you to touch all your keys. A thief doesn't need wear on the keypad. A little fingerprint dust will tell him what keys you push. I'm also looking into safes and found that nugget in a forum on safe cracking.

 

[landon74]

I've got one of each myself. The combination lock on my RSC, I figure that's enough to keep most unwanted persons out of it, I know that a professional thief can probably get into it if he's got some time. That's where I keep most of my firearms. I also have a Gun Vault next to the bed with a pistol and surefire for unexpected callers.

 

[Ramius]

Keypad, multiple combos

Keypad, for my situation it works best....

No worries about wearing out the keypad, or dusting for prints.. I entered 6 different combos all using different numbers, and use them in rotation for the most part.....

Keypads can be set with a time delay of 1 minute to 90 minutes, although I chose NOT to use that feature....

I keep multiple sets of extra batteries on the door with magnets, along with the flashlight and glow sticks mentioned by others, and rotate stock regularly. Can always use the batteries in a less important device.

Have had nothing but good experience with my Fort Knox safe, with the extra fireproofing it's rated 90 minutes. Fire is my biggest worry, theft second, and of course safety when non-gunnies visit.

Friends have both types for various reasons, that work for them.

Which ever you choose, recomend highly that you make up a sealed envelope with inventory, pictures, combos, etc. and swap packets with your other RSC owning friends, for emergencies. Should anything happen to me, or a disaster strike, I have records in another city as backup.

Can you tell that redundancy and backups are important to me?

Hope this helps.

Ramius.

 

[Gewehr98]

Keypad, all the way!

Somebody dumped this one on the curb a couple years ago in our beachside neighborhood after hurricanes flooded it and the contents with saltwater. The previous owners had disassembled the inside lock mechanism, but the keypad was fine, complete with two 9v batteries for maximum life. It weighs on the order of 160 pounds empty, has some seriously thick metal construction, and similar models on the website weren't cheap, so I decided to spend some time and effort on it. It certainly looked and felt more substantial than other safes I'd seen at retail establishments.

So I called LaGard, ordered a direct replacement lockwork, and had it working within a matter of minutes once the parts arrived. I had the safe sandblasted at the Auto Hobby Shop, primed it, then did a plain-vanilla RustOleum battleship gray finish. It works very nicely, quick access, it lets you know if the batteries are getting low, and if you screw up the combo too many times, it does a 5-minute lockout, then a 30-minute lockout. I have it bolted to the floor joists in my walk-in master closet, and consider the price of the lock mechanism and my time well worth the effort.

Inside, as I found it:

Front, as I found it:

Something I noticed when we were moving it from Florida to Wisconsin - the safe had been sitting in the hot Florida sun for an afternoon, and I had put our important paperwork in it before securing it in my pickup for the drive to Wisconsin. I needed a copy of our military housing lease agreement so they could close it out, and couldn't open the safe! The keypad was hot to the touch, and any time I touched a number it gave me the error beeps. So I had to move the truck and safe to a shaded area for almost 2 hours before it cooled down enough to let me open it. I'm assuming it's a LaGard mechanism to prevent anybody from trying to torch their way through the keypad and causing it to release the lockwork. It wouldn't matter if they did try, the hole going into the safe is only large enough for a small length of telephone RJ-12 section from the keypad to lock mechanism, and the mechanism is designed to prevent manipulation via coat hangar or anything short of oxy-acetylene torch cutting through the 1/2" steel door.