Jorg Nysgerrig
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- Apr 13, 2006
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Yep, the LaGard lock that Cannon and others put on the RSC.
Concerned over failing electronic locks or EMP disabling them? How bout extra keypad?
- Thread starter karz10
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Pulse
Member
make a tin foil hat for it.
no, i am not kidding, wrap it in a few layers of tinfoil and store it in direct contact with the ground, you just created a Faraday cage that will protect your keypad from any non-nuclear burst of EM energy and will still offer good protection from a HANE induced EMP.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
(1) Can you replace the keypad from the outside with the safe closed?
(2) If you can, there must be some electronics inside the safe that interface with the keypad and the locking mechanism, yes? If that's where the microprocessor is, changing the keypad won't fix it.
(2) If you can, there must be some electronics inside the safe that interface with the keypad and the locking mechanism, yes? If that's where the microprocessor is, changing the keypad won't fix it.
That is how my browning medallion is. The key pad has a flat ribbon cable that goes through a little hole in the door to the electronics inside the door that sends the keypad signal and the battery power (exterior battery compartment) to the electronics inside the safe.
KarenTOC
Member
I vote for "backup key."
Of course, that would require a "secondary backup key" in case you lose or misplace your actual backup key.
Of course, it probably wouldn't hurt to have a key in every room in case you can't get to the actual room that has your backup key or your secondary backup key.
Of course, you'd have to disguise your multiple backup keys in case a bad guy got in and saw the key hanging on the key rack by the front door which they would immediately recognize as "gun safe backup key."
Of course, you'd need some kind of record of how you disguised your keys and where you hid them.
An excel spreadsheet would be perfect for that...
Of course, that would require a "secondary backup key" in case you lose or misplace your actual backup key.
Of course, it probably wouldn't hurt to have a key in every room in case you can't get to the actual room that has your backup key or your secondary backup key.
Of course, you'd have to disguise your multiple backup keys in case a bad guy got in and saw the key hanging on the key rack by the front door which they would immediately recognize as "gun safe backup key."
Of course, you'd need some kind of record of how you disguised your keys and where you hid them.
An excel spreadsheet would be perfect for that...
karz10
Member
Too many posts to quote directly, but thanks for the feedback.
To highlight a couple general thoughts w/ a response...
Yes, I understand that things could go wrong down inside the lock that a keypad won't fix, however my thinking was that the most susceptible component imo also happens to be the least expensive and easiest to replace component, the keypad. Therefore, I was thinking, and wanting to discuss this logic as it related to general failures, as well as the EMP failure.
Why EMP failure? Well, as stated, I don't know much about them, and while it is a low risk issue w/ potentially deadly consequences (nuclear) more important than the EMP part of the equation, there are non nuclear EMPs in existence now, and from my experience technology changes, so this may become a more prevalent risk at some point in the future. Also, over the years, I've seen a number of comments from other users saying they would not get electronic locks for this reason, or I would have never thought about it, so while hypothetical, I was thinking about others that may have these locks, or others that may be concerned about the issue, as well as my own possible needs.
As to why people would not just get a mechanical lock in the first place, I can't speak for everyone, but sometimes you inherit things, or stumble across a steal/deal on something, and so while one may desire a mechanical lock, they end up w/ an electronic lock. So again, to anyone that may have an electronic lock, I was thinking the keypad might be a point of failure, and I didn't realize it was so cheap to have a replacement on hand, and thought it might be a good idea for anyone interested.
I have simplex locks on my quick access boxes, I have one quick access long gun box that has a keypad and back up key, but I have another RSC that has electronic lock only, hence my questions.
As for how to replace it, I'm looking into that now, but I can physically remove the keypad from the safe to change the battery, and there's a cord attached to it. I think in theory, I could take the backing off the lock and probably unplug the keypad from the safe, and plug in the new keypad if needed, w/out calling a service person, or possibly waiting several days for a replacement (assuming time of peace, or wait could be longer, or indefinite). Again, this is my theory, and am trying to confirm it.
I don't see this as a security risk really, as someone commented, since the lock is inside the safe. The keypad is merely an input device, and whether or not a keypad is removable is irrelevant to how someone might 'hack' into the lock. I mean, swapping out a keypad is just swapping out something to press the buttons with to let the lock know you have the combination. Wrong tampering w/ this device or wires and it will throw the re-lockers (I believe correct term), in theory, making it inaccessible if tampering. I think it's a good idea to have a removable keypad and battery outside the safe, from a maintenance perspective, to allow for the owner to operate and possibly fix something simple like a battery or keypad failure, w/out having to have the door open (although recommended when possible), in case of failure while it's locked.
Thanks for the feedback, and the jokes, it's all good.
To highlight a couple general thoughts w/ a response...
Yes, I understand that things could go wrong down inside the lock that a keypad won't fix, however my thinking was that the most susceptible component imo also happens to be the least expensive and easiest to replace component, the keypad. Therefore, I was thinking, and wanting to discuss this logic as it related to general failures, as well as the EMP failure.
Why EMP failure? Well, as stated, I don't know much about them, and while it is a low risk issue w/ potentially deadly consequences (nuclear) more important than the EMP part of the equation, there are non nuclear EMPs in existence now, and from my experience technology changes, so this may become a more prevalent risk at some point in the future. Also, over the years, I've seen a number of comments from other users saying they would not get electronic locks for this reason, or I would have never thought about it, so while hypothetical, I was thinking about others that may have these locks, or others that may be concerned about the issue, as well as my own possible needs.
As to why people would not just get a mechanical lock in the first place, I can't speak for everyone, but sometimes you inherit things, or stumble across a steal/deal on something, and so while one may desire a mechanical lock, they end up w/ an electronic lock. So again, to anyone that may have an electronic lock, I was thinking the keypad might be a point of failure, and I didn't realize it was so cheap to have a replacement on hand, and thought it might be a good idea for anyone interested.
I have simplex locks on my quick access boxes, I have one quick access long gun box that has a keypad and back up key, but I have another RSC that has electronic lock only, hence my questions.
As for how to replace it, I'm looking into that now, but I can physically remove the keypad from the safe to change the battery, and there's a cord attached to it. I think in theory, I could take the backing off the lock and probably unplug the keypad from the safe, and plug in the new keypad if needed, w/out calling a service person, or possibly waiting several days for a replacement (assuming time of peace, or wait could be longer, or indefinite). Again, this is my theory, and am trying to confirm it.
I don't see this as a security risk really, as someone commented, since the lock is inside the safe. The keypad is merely an input device, and whether or not a keypad is removable is irrelevant to how someone might 'hack' into the lock. I mean, swapping out a keypad is just swapping out something to press the buttons with to let the lock know you have the combination. Wrong tampering w/ this device or wires and it will throw the re-lockers (I believe correct term), in theory, making it inaccessible if tampering. I think it's a good idea to have a removable keypad and battery outside the safe, from a maintenance perspective, to allow for the owner to operate and possibly fix something simple like a battery or keypad failure, w/out having to have the door open (although recommended when possible), in case of failure while it's locked.
Thanks for the feedback, and the jokes, it's all good.
Impureclient
Member
Who would use an EMP without the threat of Sentinels? They cause too much damage in the blast
radius....although it is the only weapon we have against the machines.
radius....although it is the only weapon we have against the machines.
Animal Mother
Member
I understand its nice to have a secondary way into your safe should the keypad fail, but most safes are not impenetrable vaults. Hypothetically, if an EMP should occur and my keypad won't work on my safe and I have no alternate key lock, then I'm going after it with a prybar and if needs be a sledgehammer. It might take me an afternoon, but I would have access to my guns. A well coordinated EMP attack would be devastating to the US.
If anyone is interested what an EMP attack on the US would be like Lights Out by David Crawford is some great SHTF fiction.
If anyone is interested what an EMP attack on the US would be like Lights Out by David Crawford is some great SHTF fiction.
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Well, if you want to test it, make your own electromagnetic pulse:
1) Find a strong magnet - maybe magnets from speakers would be strong enough? Or open your Physics textbook and make an electromagnet.
2) Subject your safe to that strong magnetic field, and move the magnet around briskly and close.
.
1) Find a strong magnet - maybe magnets from speakers would be strong enough? Or open your Physics textbook and make an electromagnet.
2) Subject your safe to that strong magnetic field, and move the magnet around briskly and close.
.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
So I saw this just now on the news. Interesting stuff.
Whoever said EMP was nothing to ever worry about... maybe that's not quite true.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,513295,00.html
Whoever said EMP was nothing to ever worry about... maybe that's not quite true.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,513295,00.html
That is why I elected to have a dial lock on my safe rather than an electronic one. If ever the SHTF, I want my rifles when I need them most. I also want to have a working safe to protect my other guns from looters.
Katrina was the wake up call for all those that said it could never happen here. We all know it happened here, and next time it could be even worse.
Next time some anti asks the question "why would anyone need an assault weapon?", my response is "Katrina" and "the thousands of people that had semi-automatic rifles to protect their family and property"
Katrina was the wake up call for all those that said it could never happen here. We all know it happened here, and next time it could be even worse.
Next time some anti asks the question "why would anyone need an assault weapon?", my response is "Katrina" and "the thousands of people that had semi-automatic rifles to protect their family and property"
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
The induced voltages and currents are several orders of magnitude less than an EMP would cause, though. For an EMP, you are looking at tens to hundreds of kilovolts per meter, not the few volts per meter that you can generate by moving a handheld magnet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse
That is like comparing a flashlight beam to an industrial CO2 laser; just because something can withstand the former, doesn't mean it will withstand the latter.
FWIW, here's what the military uses to produce EMP's for testing:
See the size of the antenna above the plane. And that thing is fed by some massive power cables, coupled to some massive capacitor banks.
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