Safe use of a safe, will a desiccant draw in moisture?

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a1bigtuna

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I have Goldenrods in my safes, have bags of desiccant in my safes and am wondering if having a lot of desiccant inside of a safe will "draw" in moisture which normally would not migrate into a warmed safe. Since I have to dry out the bags, it makes me wonder if they are pulling in extra moisture instead of only absorbing the trapped moisture.
Anyone out there know for sure, what the case is?
 
Do you have a seal around the cord? What about the door? If the thing is sealed, then no, it can't draw in more water. If it isn't sealed, I would imagine that it COULD.

I didn't study this exactly, I studied math and physics (which makes me a jack of all trades but master of none?) but it would seem logical to me that a hygroscopic compound that does change the immediate humidity around it by drawing moisture out of the air would in turn draw more moisture in. Simply because if the air can hold x amount of water, and you remove x, then now the air can hold more water, thus repeating a cycle. If it isn't sealed.

I'd think you'd be better off without the hygroscopic compound (dri-eze or whatever) and just the rods if it isn't sealed, and MAYBE with the stuff if it is sealed.

Again, that would be a good question for someone that focused a little more on this than I did. I can see the logic in it, but I can't be certain without actually doing a controlled experiment or finding case of such.

Perhaps someone with a chemistry or maybe molecular biology degree will step in and say for certain.
 
^ I believe you are correct. :)

Take for example, car brake fluid. It's highly hygroscopic, and it deteriorates slowly over time because it's not in a perfectly sealed environment.

I imagine if you left brake fluid out in the open, in a very high humid area, it will absorb water many times faster than if it was at least, sealed.

As long as the safe has some sort of rubber sealing, it should be good to go with the dessicant.
 
I should add that I also used a 1 1/2 inch of magnetic tape along the safe door seams. They just pull off when I open it. It may appear I am overly worried about rust, but had rolls of that tape and it does not cost me anything except the 15 seconds to put it back in place. My thinking was that it just might be a little more barrier to moisture. I am in San Diego less than a mile from the bay and the ocean. Safes are in the garage, bolted to the floor on top of two layers of rubber matting. One may not be opened for several weeks or even months, so I thought just a little extra prevention might avoid some grief. What is hard for me is that I have posted this on three different forums, and have answers that no it does not draw in water to yes it does (based on a safe installer's input). So, it "ain't all that clear" to me. The safes are Liberty safes.
 
I've used a golden rod and dessicant both. The dessicant requires an occasional baking in the oven to re-charge.

If you don't live in a high humidity climate it doesn't matter that much.
 
I use desiccant, and do not believe it is pointless, regardless of the ability of water vapor to enter the safe. After all, don't we let humidity in every time we open the safe?
 
When I lived in very arid northern NV, I never needed anything for moisture - even with the safe in the garage. Now in humid FL, the safe is inside under heat and air, I have the goldenrod, 3 dessicant packs and silicone socks - so far, they seem to be working
 
The best thing to do instead of guessing what you need to control moisture is to find out if you actually need to and buy a hygrometer (humidity gauge) to tell you what the percentage actually is. You can get them for well under 10 bucks....I have a digital indoor/outdoor thermometer in my safe with the outside unit on top of the safe. I can open the door and see what the humidity level is and compare the safe's inside temp to the room temp to make sure my Dri-Rod is working.
 
Yep. Good digital temperature/humidity gauges are cheap these days. Grainger has numerous offerings.
 
At the risk of making a fool of myself by playing physicist on the intertubes: you have a semi sealed box. Something inside removes water vapor. That something can't increase the humidity in the box.
 
As posted before me, you have a semi-sealed box, with an extremly low infiltration rate. However, each time you open the safe, moisture that is in the air is going to enter, and the humidity will match the room that it is located in. Moisture in the air behaves a lot like water on the floor, it will seek its own level. A heater in the box will raise the temperature, but the content of moisture in the air will remain the same, causing relative humidity will go down. A good dessicant will pick up moisture and hold it, until it reaches the maximum amount it can hold, then will need to be heated to drive the moisture out. The best solutin for guns probably is a combination of both heater and dessicant, and keeping the guns warmer than the dew point of the air that they are surrounded by. Oh, and keep them oiled with a good quality product.
 
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My house is air conditioned so I don't worry about rust. I wipe down all my guns with LPS2 and have never had a rust problem, ever.....chris3
 
Anyone have any idea what a "safe" ambient humidity level is; either in the normal environment or in a safe with a Goldenrod?
 
I've always heard to try to keep it around 50% or so. You don't want it too dry if you have wood stocks, though....However, I just looked at my safe and it's 33% right now. It usually stays about 40%, though.
 
just depends on where you live
desiccants do not draw in water like a vacuum, they just pick up some of whatever is in there, it's not like you have fan forced draft thru your gun safe

I live in hot, humid south Georgia, never had any issues (some guns in safes for like >30 years), and I don't do desiccants and such, but we don't wade in saltwater here either

too much of too low humidity can do your wood harm, as CPE said
something like 50%RH is a pretty good target, as he mentioned
same applies to your crawlspace under your house down here, too wet or too dry, both bad news
 
I live in hot humid south GA as well. I have a humidity gauge in my safe. I have 3 or 4 of the large metal dessicant cannisters in the safe. The house is heated and air conditioned, and the safe has a rubbber seal.

The humidity gauge in the safe generally reads about 45%, and the dessicant has to be recharged in the oven about every 2 months. I have never developed rust on any guns.
 
I make sure cased rifles warm up slowly before removing the rifle, to prevent condensation on the cold metal.

Other than that, I've never had trouble with rust on guns in safes, as the safes are in heated rooms.

If I had to use a desiccant pack in a safe, I think I'd choose the metal cans with silica gel beads. These usually have an indicator dye (pink for wet and blue for dry).

I use these at work to keep electronics packages dry. It takes around 2 hrs at 300°F in a toaster oven to dry them for reuse.
 
I also live in Georgia. It can be pretty humid here, but I've never used anything special. I have my guns in 3 steel safes all in a "manroom" with my hunting gear, laptop etc. I just leave the doors open for a few hours almost every day to allow the heated/AC air to circulate through the safes. Never had any problems. I guess that if you leave the doors closed for months at a time you would need something to keep humidity down regardless of the conditions where you live.
 
Concentration Gradient

If you are removing water from a safe that is not hermetically sealed then the imbalance in the concentration gradient will draw in more water back in until the concentration is the same inside and out. The time it takes to reach this equilibrium will be mediated by how "leaky" the safe is. This has been my experience with concentrations moving across membranes. YMMV...Doc
 
According to what I remember from NACE (National Association of Corrosion Engineers) the key word is ether, the medium that allows the chemical reaction. Most numbers given refer to a certain humidity level- "non-condensing". The condensation is the "ether" that allows the chemical reaction between cathode and anode. I have heat that maintains the dew point in the safe above the outside environment. I generally keep the dehumidifier set at 70 and never have had any rust problem with this set up.
 
I'm a packaging engineer by trade and am a big fan of VCI emitters and VCI paper. I have a couple emmiters in my RSC and in the metal cabinent which I use for my reloading kit.

I also have a couple jumbo dessicant bean bags in there just for kicks and giggles.

All of this is located in my basement, which is humid in the summer (condensation dripping off of the cold water pipes) and bone dry in the winter.

I haven't had any probelms... but of course, I wipe down everything with CLP b4 putting away.

The only firearm I've had rust on was a Kentucky long rifle I built form a kit, which was stored in an air tight case in direct contact with polyurethane foam :^( This was b4 I knew anything about foam outgassing.

VCI Products protect metals by forming a mono-ionic layer of high-tech VCI(Volatile Corrosion Inhibitors) chemicals, on the metal surface. It provides corrosion protection to ferrous, non-ferrous and combination of ferrous and non-ferrous metals(multi-metals). The coverage is complete — all surfaces, including crevices, cavities and other inaccessible void areas receive total protection. The VCI layer is self-replenishing, even for packaging that’s repeatedly opened. The greatest advantage VCI is that Air-tight packaging is not required.
Click to expand...
 
The whole point of the " safe heater" is to stop condensation, it only takes a few degrees above ambeint temp,the temp of the room in which the safe and contents are located.

I store my firarms in one of the CHEAP STACK-ON gun lockers, I have an eighteen inch Gunslick (Outers) Gunsaver, installed in the bottom with the standoff brackets, it's going on 9 years old .

Several of my guns are old enough to have NO BLUEING, and I have never seen a rust spot on ANY of my guns.

The locker is by no means as air tight a a quality safe thats fire rated . I use no dessicant and bring my gun in from outside, even in cold winter weather and put them in the locker, I may hit them a lick with a rag if I see evidence of moisture such as drops on the surface. They remain in the locker until I have time to give them a proper cleaning.

The heaters work and will work even better in an enviroment (interior of a fire rated safe)
that is nearly air tight.

I do use VCI paper on some of my handguns that don't get out that often but I leave the rest for the heater to do it's job.
 
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