jayofthejungle1985
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1st auto shotgun... have a chance to get either, pros and cons?
Saiga 12 or Beretta 1201FP
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lobo9er
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i dont know much about either so i prolly should sit and watch this one. with that said the saiga looks very cool, but i wonder how they will hold up after years of use. from all accounts they sound rugged. but i still wonder how long they will hold up. they may be banned though which would make them very collectible. the beretta will prolly never have the collectibilty that the saiga has the potential to have. to me the 1201 kinda gets lost in the white noise of semi auto/tacticals. the beretta looks like it may be a better built shotgun though. and of course all of my opinions are based on reading "stuff" on the internet and magazines and eyeing things up at gun shops here and there.
Rebel Yarr
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Love my Saiga. However if you are buying a stock Saiga, be prepared to drop a lot of time and upgrade/conversion costs in. drilling/filing/painting
If you want a project, get a Saiga - love mine.
If you want a project, get a Saiga - love mine.
berettashotgun
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Have both - depends on what you are after.
I personally would avoid BOTH.
A reliable 22lr semi is a better option, or so it seems to me.
The saiga doesn't fit any of my needs, have a rifle for the "AK-12ga" role, and it does much better. I like the saiga design, but *WOW* it has no reasonably priced options ( mags
), and the fit and finish is fugly.
The 1201 has a recoil enhancing design, I love mine, but looks aside - it is NOT fun by any stretch of the imagination to shoot.
I personally would avoid BOTH.
A reliable 22lr semi is a better option, or so it seems to me.
The saiga doesn't fit any of my needs, have a rifle for the "AK-12ga" role, and it does much better. I like the saiga design, but *WOW* it has no reasonably priced options ( mags
), and the fit and finish is fugly.The 1201 has a recoil enhancing design, I love mine, but looks aside - it is NOT fun by any stretch of the imagination to shoot.
Ben Shepherd
Member
I know of a couple examples decidedly on the high side of 10,000 rounds. They're holding up just fine, other than the piston or "puck" needs replaced every once in a while.
Ben Shepherd
Member
Also: Might ask Mr. McCracken what he thinks, he shot one to his hearts content a while back and wrote a review up here on THR:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=407872&highlight=adventure+begins
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=407872&highlight=adventure+begins
Gunfighter123
Member
Get the Saiga S-12 either factory stock or get the conversion.
There are LOTS of after-market items for the S-12 ------ look around here;
http://forum.saiga-12.com/
There are LOTS of after-market items for the S-12 ------ look around here;
http://forum.saiga-12.com/
Ben Shepherd
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Forgot the BIG question earlier-
What do you want it for? What will be its intended purpose?
What do you want it for? What will be its intended purpose?
THE DARK KNIGHT
Member
The Saiga is a ton of fun, but out of the box it's got an awful trigger and terrible balance. If you've got an extra $200, a few hours on the weekend, and access to a dremel it becomes an awesome gun. Just see if your state has laws against semi-auto shotguns like some do.
It comes down to style too. You want a brutal, bare bones, nasty looking gun like the Saiga or the more elegant, traditional Beretta autoloader.
It comes down to style too. You want a brutal, bare bones, nasty looking gun like the Saiga or the more elegant, traditional Beretta autoloader.
The saiga in stock form is very underwhelming for the price they command. A saiga with a decent amount of money and time put into it is a fine weapon. If you use the search function you will come across some threads where I have lengthy posts with my opinion of the S12.
The saiga can be a real money pit. Plan at least $400 on top the purchase price to do a basic conversion and buy enough mags to make it worth owning a saiga. It is easy to get into a saiga over a grand. At that point they are often built to your tastes and an impressive weapon. A custom S12 is a very very different beast from a stock one.
I cannot comment on the Beretta.
The saiga can be a real money pit. Plan at least $400 on top the purchase price to do a basic conversion and buy enough mags to make it worth owning a saiga. It is easy to get into a saiga over a grand. At that point they are often built to your tastes and an impressive weapon. A custom S12 is a very very different beast from a stock one.
I cannot comment on the Beretta.
kentucky_smith
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I've always considered my Beretta 1200 (walnut stocked) to be a poor man's Benelli. Runs like a champ, doesn't kick any worse than a single shot or pump.
I have a converted S-12, and while I really like it, I'm not certain of its overall utility. The gun runs fine, handles OK, but that magazine is massive and loading it on a closed bolt is a PITA. The tube magazine just seems like a better way to handle multiple rounds that big in diameter, at least from a handling perspective.
Mike
Mike
jayofthejungle1985
Member
The guns purpose will be mainly just for fun, i already have pumps that do their duties. I like the idea of 10 rd mags on the saiga and would do the conversion if i got one, but i also like being able to load as i go with the tube magazine. I also would like to get into trap and skeet shooting, and the beretta i'm guessing would be better than the saiga or one of my pumps. Saigas look oh so fun though...MAybe ill try and talk the wife into LETTING me get both...
Ben Shepherd
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I stick with the factory 5 rounders myself, and I've found that the factory 8 rounders are the cats meow as far as handling/balance go, but the price and avalibility of them here in the states is horrid.
Also- the s-12 with its AK style rifle type sights is not well suited to clay games.
And- while the reports are mostly positive, there are enough folks that are having trouble with the 10 rounders being ammo sensitive and breaking(including my brother), that I've stayed clear of them. The few times I used one, I found it unweildly and it upset the guns handling badly.
Now if you're just after "cool" factor, go for it. It's your money.
Also- the s-12 with its AK style rifle type sights is not well suited to clay games.
And- while the reports are mostly positive, there are enough folks that are having trouble with the 10 rounders being ammo sensitive and breaking(including my brother), that I've stayed clear of them. The few times I used one, I found it unweildly and it upset the guns handling badly.
Now if you're just after "cool" factor, go for it. It's your money.
You need to keep modifying the gun. The two best solutions right now are to either have the bolt relieved or to install a JTE mag well. Either of those combined with an extended mag release mags for much easier reloading. I am currently a fan of the mag well (the bolt mod offers some other advantages as well however, and could be done in conjunction). I have been impressed with them and plan to install one on my most current saiga build to test it out further.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GpMvj-v3_w
I agree that an 8 round mag is probably ideal. The fives are not bad but I am not certain if they can be made to work with a mag well.
You want a pick-up truck or a sports car?
I own a 1201fp, fired thousands of round through it, used it for several training classes without any hick-ups, ever. It is incredibly light, naturally aims better than my 870MM and for me, has less felt recoil than my 870.
It is my HD shotgun.
I own a 1201fp, fired thousands of round through it, used it for several training classes without any hick-ups, ever. It is incredibly light, naturally aims better than my 870MM and for me, has less felt recoil than my 870.
It is my HD shotgun.
Saiga-12's do take work to get them running properly..very quirkie. Out of the box it may not eject rounds unless you use hi-brass or send it to a repair facility due to improper gas excape holes in the barrel from Russia with love. (I had to sent mine in for warranty after just 6 rounds) They call them Vodka Specials.
I bet the Baretta shoots just fine out of the box and without doing anything to the shotgun.
If you get the Saigas make sure to get the 20 round drum and a few clear 12 round stick mag.
I bet the Baretta shoots just fine out of the box and without doing anything to the shotgun.
If you get the Saigas make sure to get the 20 round drum and a few clear 12 round stick mag.
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Mylhouse
Member
I have shot both and prefer the Beretta 1201FP. The Saiga is just too gimmicky and needs too much out of the box. The Beretta will run and run and run, right out of the box, and for years to come. Tom Knapp's Benelli M1 Super90 had over 100,000 rounds through it before he retired it, and the Beretta is basically the same thing.
That said, the recoil of the Beretta in stock form is pretty punishing. However, once a $80 Choate pistol grip stock was put on it, it became a pleasure to shoot.
Really, the only advantages I see to the Saiga are its ability to be upgraded and the fact that some of them are threaded to take choke tubes.
That said, the recoil of the Beretta in stock form is pretty punishing. However, once a $80 Choate pistol grip stock was put on it, it became a pleasure to shoot.
Really, the only advantages I see to the Saiga are its ability to be upgraded and the fact that some of them are threaded to take choke tubes.
THE DARK KNIGHT
Member
I agree the Pro-Mags etc. are clunky beasts. But have you tried it with the Izhmash factory 8 rounders? Or the (horridly overpriced) MD20 drum? Also a a 10 round mini drum is coming out soon.
Whole different weapon with the proper magazines.
There is a difference between expensive and over priced. The MD drum is the only quality drum on the market. They sell very well at that price point. It is expensive. More than some people are willing to pay but I am not sure that I would call it over priced.
As to the chaos mini-drums, I do not believe there is an eta on them so it might be over stating things to say they will be out soon, although soon is a very relative term. Chaos makes quality products so they will probably be great, they will not be cheap either however.
I'm not sure what you mean by gimmicky. They do however need work out of the box. Getting a saiga really boils down to whether you want a project (or are willing to pay someone else to do the work) and are willing to drop more money on them post purchase. If you willing to put in some time and money the results can be very rewarding. You can go anywhere on that scale from mild to wild. If you want out of the box greatness you wont find it in a stock saiga. You could turn to the after market for a high quality saiga build is out of the box ready.
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