45 (long) Colt in
Leveraction Rifles
(PACO)
[....]
My loads are mine, in my guns......you dear reader are on your own in reloading. Like any reloading information mine can not be taken directly...using sound and proven reloading practices is essential. I say this because I am giving information on some loads from my guns that are above SAAMI specs for pressure, loads that John probably would never want in his home, let alone in his guns.
There are 1892 action rifles and there are 1892 action rifles, age is the thing. And they can be as different in strength as granite and sand stone...they can look the same, feel the same, some will take the pressure of heavy loads, others will not. It’s up to the owner to find out where his ‘92 is on the age and strength question. Also there are Marlin and Winchester actions less strong than the 92s, they are in the 94 class...and then there are the 1873 reproductions (the originals didn’t come in 45Colt), but I’ll give some guide lines on all of these...that’s all they can be....GUIDELINES.
It was always interesting, but puzzling to me while reloading and working with guns during my 35 year period before 1985. (Yes my reloading experience is now well over 50 years and I have reloaded ammo on three different Continents, in many, many countries). Why was a leveraction never chambered in the 45 Colt round from a major manufacturer before 1985? It was from the 1850s to 1985, almost 130 years before Winchester finally put out a ‘94 action levergun chambered for the round. Lots of folks have written about reasons for this...and some of them have been correct...some not even close.
But the research I did back in 1984/85 for my first book on leverguns shows that the 45 Colt handgun round was a proprietary round developed and patented by Colt for the Army. And Colt never gave permission to other companies to chamber any guns for it. That included S&W, Winchester, and later Marlin....so the 44-40 became the revolver/rifle classic. Colt did sell 45 caliber handguns to the public early on when U.S. Army orders slowed...but wouldn’t let other manufacturers chamber for it. That’s not being critical of Colt, it’s a fact of history....so by the time the patents and design copyrights fell into public domain two decades plus later....the 44-40 and 38-40 class of rounds dominated. And then rather large cased calibers followed to make the leveraction rifles very potent long arms. So these big rounds created no profitable reason to go to the 45 Colt handgun rounds in rifles, after the 45 Colt patents were expired. Rounds like Winchester’s 45-65...and Marlin’s 1881 leveraction in 45-70 eclipsed the need for the 45 Colt in rifles.
By the way, for those that are a little picky, and have noticed I have been calling the 45 Colt round just that, not the long Colt......that’s because we must be historically correct for all the fanatics. The term ‘long Colt’ came into being when the Army played around with the shorter round in 45....to fit the Schofield S&W total ejection revolver. And why do you suspect S&W didn’t just chamber the S&W revolver for the Colt round? I have heard all the reasons, the S&W couldn’t take the pressure of 40 grains of black powder and the 255 grain bullet...the action of the S&W was too short for the longer Colt round....also even if S&W did make the cylinders longer the ejecting system could not completely extract them. Wrong on all counts.
All of that fails as reasoning when you take into account S&W could have made their guns to any design they wanted....and certainly the modern repos in 45 long Colt contain the pressures, and eject very well.....now before someone yells about the older guns being made of weak steel...even wrought iron of that day was really mild steel. The gun steel of the day was fairly strong...we had learned how to carbonize steel even back then. The reason for not shooting smokeless powder in real black powder single actions...is because of smokeless powder’s pressures and very fast peak burning curves, especially with pistol powders... plus the age and long use of original S&Ws obviously would have weakened them.
I have no doubt the S&W 45 Schofields back then would have easily contained the pressure of 40 grains of black..so with minor changes S&W could have done it. So why didn’t they chamber for the 45 Colt round? It was still proprietary to Colt, during the Army’s testing time of the Schofield. Also the S&W revolver was designed around a short 44 case, why redesign the gun and change tooling and manufacturing process, when you can just change the caliber and chambering and use a short 45 case.
So S&W made a round that could be used in both the Colt single action Army and the Schofield...the problem was the 45 Colt round was too long for the original Schofields. And that created a logistics nightmare for the Army, and also many complained about the decrease in power. But because of the Schofield handgun the 45 Short Colt was born...and many other types of handguns on the market in the mid 1880s thru and into 1900s, were also chambered for the short round...because they couldn’t for the Colt full size round. When the patents ran out on the Colt 45, the need for the short Colt chambering was no longer there. Short ammo was made right up into the late 1930s....at the start of the 2nd World War it was dropped from production and never really brought back except for short runs...till now and Cowboy Action shooting gaining popularity in the last few years...of course they call it the Schofield load...that’s nostalgia as far as I’m concerned, not history. Black Hills makes a really fine Schofield load....and it is the berries as a small game load in my 45 Colt chambered rifles. Even in the new Legacy 454 carbine.
And there are two ways to look at any reality, both are true and interlinked....1. The reality of who and what we think we are inside us, and the real world as it really is outside of us...all around us no matter what we see....the problem is what the great Apostle Paul said... “we see thru a glass darkly...” Part of what he meant (I submit this is only part of it for the Theologists reading this), part of the interpretation of that, is we see thru our own internal emotional filters...so we don’t see clearly. I for one am guilty of that...why?????....I’m human. So even this whole question of long Colt or Colt is up to our filters...personally I think you should call it what you like...there is just not enough things that make us happy in this world... lets keep the ones that do.
Back to guns.....the 45 long Colt in a strong 1892 action...made of modern steel will contain the same pressures that the Winchester Big Bore action will contain and even a bit more....50,000 cup..easily. (My article on the new Legacy/Puma 454 carbine is posted on
www.gunblast.com . But I still feel that it is not designed in a way that it will take a long sustained use of the full pressure of the 454 loads at 60,000+ lbs. So don’t go there with even a modern Rossi, Browning, or Winchester 92. I have tested the new Legacy(Rossi) Puma in 454....there are changes in the little carbine, good changes...the most noticeable is what they have done to try and keep the loading tube from shearing the muzzle holding screw...and the change in how you load....much like lever 22RFs. I still think they are going to have problems...I hope not...it is a small packable rifle, that gives the bottom end power of a heavy loaded 45-70.
If Legacy truly has a 92 action that will take 454 full pressures over a sustained high number of rounds fired...like 10,000 of them...then they have made some changes to the steel and the design we don’t know about...in my tests now over one thousand heavy pressure commercial and in handloads, the 454 Legacy has performed wonderfully. I actually thought with full loads it wouldn’t sustain even that. But I’m now glad I can say I was wrong.!
Something has changed..I know a very late model, carbon steel built Browning/Winchester 92, will not take more than a few hundred rounds of 454 pressures before it gets a beginning case of bolt set back. My 1990s 45 Colt Rossi model ‘92 with 24 inch octagon barrel also didn’t do well at the 60,000 lb. Level of pressure. One Winchester was so bad, the mortises on the bolt itself had to be peened back in place, and the steel bolt blocks had to be given Mig Weld lines up the front of them, and ground and refitted to regain action tightness. In our case, I was reloading 45 long Colt cases to 60,000+cup. When a modern Rossi...a Christmas present from my children and wife three years ago, is loaded to a top end of 50,000 cup....no damage has occurred after thousands of rounds.
Because of the changes in today’s steels (since the discoveries during the 2nd WW, I would worry about any converted old 1892 Winchesters to 45 long Colt) modern Browning, Winchester, Legacy and Nave Arms, are made today from excellent steels and will take magnum pressures...Remember the first 357 magnum S&W rounds were rated at 47,000 psi. We tested original 1935 first run ammo in 357 revolvers last year and they gave well over 1500 fps from an S&W N-Frame 8 inch+ revolver...so the pressures had to be up there. The modern 92s no matter the caliber will easily take magnum handgun pressures. Certainly they take hot 44 magnum pressures without problems, so they will take the same in reloads with the 45 long Colt. I’m sure most know by now that friends John Taffin, Brian Pierce, Jim Wilson, Jim Taylor, myself and others have killed the big lie that 45 Colt brass is weaker than 44 magnum brass...or any other type. So 45 brass at these high pressures is not a problem.
So where are we.....? Modern 92s, factory chambered in 45 long Colt can take 50,000+ cup loads. But I wouldn’t trust custom rebuilt old 92 actions in 45 long Colt to be able to sustain those top pressures, unless I knew the date of the action, and it was at the very least well after the 1930s. Also I have found that some of the heavy loads I use daily in my Ruger S/As in long Colt, are too warm for the early 1980s Winchester 94 actions in 45 long Colt. I have blown extractors, loosened ejectors, on them. Now that is my warm loads in the Rugers. Most folks don’t load that high...and I can understand that.
So I would put the very upper limit on pressure in these fine model 94 Winchester and Marlin leveractions at 40,000+ cup...the same as the 30-30 class of top pressures for deer, black bear, and hogs. Use top 45 Colt loads for hunting and such, but lesser loads for fun, small game, pests, and varmints. They work really well on any size feral dogs or good sized ‘yotes.
Remember a medium load of 1600 fps for a 300 grain bullet from a 45 long Colt rifle at acceptable pressure with the right powders...and that can give 1700+ lbs of muzzle punch...!!!! Even a simple low pressure load that gives only 1000 fps with a 300 grain cast bullet gives over 660 ft.lbs of muzzle energy...so the Winchesters and the Marlins in normal actions give plenty of power. And in the lower 48..(lower 48 states) one could wonder why you would need more power than the standard Marlins and Winchesters in 45 long Colt. I like the 92 actions because I love the rifles....and having the potential of extra power when and if needed also helps...but it’s the actions I love. At the right range even Moose in the Minnesota regions will fall to 1700 to 1800 lbs of muzzle energy...with the right bullet.
Since few of us get to hunt moose in the lower 48, it is a moot question. But it will put elk, large wild boar, and big black bears right out of this life.....swiftly....When the right bullet is placed right, like in any hunting with any caliber....
Cast Performance (link on front page of Sixgunner.com), produces a WFN in 45/300 grain that is a killer with excellent accuracy. I thought the large meplate would slow penetration in large animals.....but at a simple 1700 fps it went stem to stern in a good size, tough old boar pig...(250 lbs on hoof).
I was sitting on my duff wondering why all of a sudden the ants were finding certain parts of my anatomy so fascinating...when I heard him coming and grunting and complaining, like his boss gave him a hard time at work. Ants forgotten, I lifted the Win/94 in 45 long Colt....300 grain WFN (wide flat nose) loaded to about 1500+ fps giving around a 1500 ft.lbs.or less of muzzle punch. He broke cover at 65 long paces...I was even with his chest, so I put it there...it traversed his entire body and exited after going thru his left hip joint (back leg joint socket). Kelly Brost owner of Cast Performance Bullets with his wife, the other half of the ownership....makes them right. It is an art to get the right lead/tin/antimony/ mix to have cast bullets penetrate so well at such velocities, and yet still expand at lower velocities....but obviously it is an art Kelly knows well.
I once whacked one of our famous and tough old jack rabbits (the Arizona type made from bailing wire, hard tack, and ½ inch leather strips) with one of Kelly’s 275 grain 45 slugs at around 2000 fps muzzle velocity. I know I hit him at right under 100 paces...even with recoil I saw bits and hunks go everywhere....but when I got there, I found nothing that resembled a rabbit of any kind..though there was a lot of very small pieces of fur and such over a six to seven foot circle. By the way that’s somewhat close to 2700 lbs of muzzle energy.
A better comparison indicator for me, of where a handloaded round is in the scale of killing ability...is to compare it’s standing against other rounds without the over rated muzzle energy figures. If you multiply the velocity times the bullet weight, and then divide by 7000 (number of grains in a lb, it’s the old Keith method) you get a better picture of actual power/killing levels compared to other rounds. 2000 X 275 div 7000 = KS(Killing Scale) of 79 for this 45 long Colt load from the Rossi 1892. A 44 magnum Ruger revolver with a 275 grain (same nose shape) cast WFN bullet at 1400 FPS velocity reaches a level of KS 55, and that’s a heavy handgun load that’s harvests larger medium game very well.
cartridge, it should be pretty stout.
