SBRing an AR-15

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Lightsped

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I have a basic no frills AR-15 that I am considering SBRing.

I am familar with the process of buying class 3 firearms, but I have never converted one into class 3 before.

What is the procedure? Which ATF forms?

Once the forms are in and approved, will an AR-15 pistol upper bolt directly onto a AR-15 rifle lower?
 
You need a completed and tax stamped "Form 1". Form 1 is the form to "make" an NFA firearm. Since you are entering a firearm into the registry YOU are "making" it.

After you get the Form 1 back you may buy the short barrel and put it together however you would like.
Yes, pistol uppers drop right onto the rifle lower. Consider maybe a little longer barrel though, less than 10.5" can have reliability problems, though there are many shorter uppers that run just fine. If you use the pistol upper you may have to play with the buffer and spring to get it to run right.

You will need to have the receiver engraved with YOUR name and location since you are now the "maker".

Kinda silly but that's how it works.
 
Does a Form 1 require the $200 tax fee? I am assuming it does, but just wanted to ask.

As for the gun, I was thinking of a 7.5" 9mm upper. Probably RRA.
 
Oh yeah, it's 200 bucks.....

9mm upper is a whole other deal.

Be sure on the Form 1 to put both 5.56 AND 9mm as the calibers in case you ever want to switch around.

Some of mine say "various calibers" but it's my understanding they are now rejecting those without a specific caliber.
 
Will do.

Currently where is the best place to buy a 7" A2 9mm upper? I am looking at the RRA, but am open to any brand. It should be affordable though.

Cheapest I am seeing the RRA 7" A2 9mm upper is $545... The upper will be mounted to a Olympic Arms lower once ATF approval is given.
 
Rock River is good, just understand you may have to spend money on more than the upper; buffer, spring, etc.

Seems like you need to replace the hammer in the lower too IIRC. And there is a block that goes into the lower so that the 9mm magazines fit. Those aren't cheap either if I remember.

It's been a while but I looked into doing a 9mm shorty and I think it was gonna cost me around $750 when it was all said and done, with Rock River parts.
 
First get the rifle engraved, you will need to either put your name, or your trust's name on the rifle, along with city and state. Get the rifle engraved first in case it gets lost in the mail, or other wise destroyed. The engraving shouldn't be laser engraving either, it will have to be done on a real mill. Some will point that suppressors are laser engraved, suppressor companies that laser engrave have a waiver for technical reasons (many suppressors are very thin), you do not.

Next file a Form 1, wait for it to get approved, then purchase your upper.

Also if the 9mm blocks are removable file the Form 1 as multi-caliber so you can put a 223 and 22LR upper on it also. Also file the barrel length as 1" and the overall length as 12" that should over just about every possible combination that you can do with that rifle.
 
Just curious, but why? A 7.5" 9mm semi-auto rifle offers virtually no advantage over a handgun. The performance of pistol caliber carbines is questionable to begin with, but really pointless when there is going to be almost no gain in velocity IMO.

I could see it if we were talking FA, where the rifle configuration offers a controllability advantage, but for a semi?

An 11" 5.56mm makes a lot more sense.

Just my $0.02
 
Wow was just thinking on this exact topic. So in short if I wish to add an 11" upper to my AR (it's a 5.56) I would:
1) fill out a form 1
2) send in my $200
3) Get the lower engraved with My Name, City, State
4) Once I get approval purchase the upper

Is there any additional paperwork required to legally purchase the upper or as a non SN# item it's just a part till it's attached and as such not illegal to posses?

Thanks,

-Jenrick
 
A 7.5" 9mm semi-auto rifle offers virtually no advantage over a handgun. The performance of pistol caliber carbines is questionable to begin with, but really pointless when there is going to be almost no gain in velocity IMO.
Click to expand...
Maybe not in terms of ballistics, but probably so in terms of accurately placing metal on target.

I am FAR more accurate with a carbine than I am with a pistol; shouldering the weapon adds enormously to the stability of the sight picture, in my experience. That along is worth something, even if there's not much ballistic gain.

An 11" 5.56mm makes a lot more sense.
Click to expand...
Dunno. I've been thinking about this, and frankly the muzzle flash from a 7.5" 9mm barrel is far less than that from a SBR'ed 5.56 carbine. There are lots of very well engineered ways of dealing with the 5.56 muzzle flash issue, but they all add weight/length/cost of their own and I doubt that they can possibly get the flash down to the level of a 9mm out of a 7.5" barrel coupled with nothing more sophisticated than a Vortex.

Like I said - I dunno. I'm certainly not an expert, but I've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express a time or two. :)
 
Wow was just thinking on this exact topic. So in short if I wish to add an 11" upper to my AR (it's a 5.56) I would:
1) fill out a form 1
2) send in my $200
3) Get the lower engraved with My Name, City, State
4) Once I get approval purchase the upper

Is there any additional paperwork required to legally purchase the upper or as a non SN# item it's just a part till it's attached and as such not illegal to posses?

Thanks,

-Jenrick
Click to expand...


Get the lower engraved first. This will save you the hassle of having to send a registered NFA weapon through the mail. Also, if someone messes up a $100 title one lower you can always replace it immediately.

Also you'll need a Certificate of Compliance along with the form 1.

After your approved form 1 comes back you can get the upper an assemble the weapon.

The method I prefer for building SBRs is to build the AR first as a pistol, that way I can go ahead and get my short uppers to see if the gun is going to function. After I have everything worked out I can then send off my form 1 and just add a stock when it comes back approved.
 
Is there any additional paperwork required to legally purchase the upper or as a non SN# item it's just a part till it's attached and as such not illegal to posses?
Click to expand...

No, it could potentially be illegal just to possess it. If you have no lower that could legally use it then just having the upper in your closet is a no no.
If you don't own a lower AT ALL, of ANY KIND, then having a short upper is OK. But if you have a Title 1 lower (standard rifle) and a short upper, that's a no no.

Don't buy the upper until you get the tax stamp back is the easiest way to avoid any troubles.

Now, if you already have a lower that can use it, and you had more than one short upper, that's another story.
 
Is there any additional paperwork required to legally purchase the upper or as a non SN# item it's just a part till it's attached and as such not illegal to posses?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't have a shorty upper around unless you

A) have an AR PISTOL lower than can use it

or

B) do NOT have an AR rifle lower

AR's being so modular gives BATF a very easy prosecution platform for constructive possession charges.
 
Here is a technical question.

My OlyArms 9mm rifle uses modified Sten mags.

Which mags will the RRA, KittyKat, and similar 9mm uppers?

Will my 9mm OlyArms lower receiver be ok with these newer mags from any of the shorty 9mm uppers listed above?
 
Okay so new order of things:

1) Get lower engraved with Name, City State
2)Send off Form 1 w/ $200
3) Get the upper ONLY after I get the Form 1 back.

Just to clarify the upper can only legally be installed on the lower that was registered as an NFA correct? Just want to make sure I've got my t crossed and i's dotted.

-Jenrick
 
1) Get lower engraved with Name, City State
2)Send off Form 1 w/ $200
3) Get the upper ONLY after I get the Form 1 back.
Click to expand...

Well, make sure your CLEO will actually SIGN the Form 1 before you start the engraving.

You may have trouble getting the signature depending on where you live. Austin is supposed to be reasonably friendly I hear.
 
Well having my name on the side of lower would be a good starting place for police if it's ever stolen and recovered :)

With the new chief we'll have to see how he handles things. I've heard the sheriff is good to go though. Guess I'll find out shortly.

-Jenrick
 
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