Sbs question.

[Blkhrt13]

It’s all hypothetical at the moment. But I have a baikal single shot and model 12 that took barrel damage when my dad put steel shot in it. I have always wanted to do a build and have been obsessed with lupara singles. One day I was going to cut the 12 down to a 20 inch and put a riot shield on it. Either way it makes less sense putting 200 dollars into a gun I paid 75 for. Also I was wondering about the amount of real estate to scribe the proper information on the single. I’ve also wondered about resell value? I never plan on selling any guns but what if you move to a state that doesn’t allow either? All this is kind of confusing to me. Should I just spend more time reading the atf website?

 

[dogtown tom]

It’s all hypothetical at the moment. But I have a baikal single shot and model 12 that took barrel damage when my dad put steel shot in it. I have always wanted to do a build and have been obsessed with lupara singles. One day I was going to cut the 12 down to a 20 inch

Its only a Short Barreled Shotgun when it has less than an 18" bbl or is less the 26" OAL.

and put a riot shield on it.

The perforated sheet metal handguard seen on some military and police shotguns was intended to keep the user from burning his hand on a hot barrel when employing an attached bayonet. It may look cool, but would have little usefulness on a single shot. Just club the rioter like a baby seal.

Either way it makes less sense putting 200 dollars into a gun I paid 75 for.

I agree.
Have you patterned the gun to see if the steel shot actually caused damage? Depending on the choke, you may see a bulge in the barrel.
If you cut the bbl back behind that bulge you have a nice cylinder choke. A gunsmith could also install a new choke.

Also I was wondering about the amount of real estate to scribe the proper information on the single.

A single shot shotgun receiver has plenty of room to engrave the makers name and location.

I’ve also wondered about resell value?

You have a $75 shotgun. You want to make it an SBR ($200 tax on a Form 1). If you later decide to sell, it requires a Form 4 and another $200 tax stamp. If that buyer resides in another state it will be TWO $200 tax stamps before he can take possession.

I never plan on selling any guns but what if you move to a state that doesn’t allow either? All this is kind of confusing to me.

Its only an SBS when configured as such. Before you move to that state, add a buttstock and a bbl of at least 18". ATF loves it when you tell them its no longer in NFA configuration, but its not required.

Should I just spend more time reading the atf website?

Always.

 

[Blkhrt13]

Its only a Short Barreled Shotgun when it has less than an 18" bbl or is less the 26" OAL.


The perforated sheet metal handguard seen on some military and police shotguns was intended to keep the user from burning his hand on a hot barrel when employing an attached bayonet. It may look cool, but would have little usefulness on a single shot. Just club the rioter like a baby seal.



I agree.
Have you patterned the gun to see if the steel shot actually caused damage? Depending on the choke, you may see a bulge in the barrel.
If you cut the bbl back behind that bulge you have a nice cylinder choke. A gunsmith could also install a new choke.


A single shot shotgun receiver has plenty of room to engrave the makers name and location.




You have a $75 shotgun. You want to make it an SBR ($200 tax on a Form 1). If you later decide to sell, it requires a Form 4 and another $200 tax stamp. If that buyer resides in another state it will be TWO $200 tax stamps before he can take possession.



Its only an SBS when configured as such. Before you move to that state, add a buttstock and a bbl of at least 18". ATF loves it when you tell them its no longer in NFA configuration, but its not required.




Always.

Thank you for taking the time to reply to all my questions. I am going to get handloading before I consider tax stamping anything. I was not clear the sbs of the model 12 would end with me cutting it down much further than the 20 inch original plan. The barrel is split starting somewhere on the long end of 22 inches. It has a rupture from the pressure build up. I think I’d be more likely to find a new barrel for the pump if I wanted to get it back in normal condition.

 

[James Petti]

Read more. Don't club babies. Wear your own skin and be comfortable in it.

 

[12Bravo20]

A shot gun is not an SBR as long as it has at least an 18" long barrel AND is over 26" in OAL.

The only reason that the Mossberg Shockwave and similar are legal is the fact that they are made on virgin receivers that has NEVER had a shoulder stock nor is it designed to be fired from the shoulder.

So if a shotgun has ever had a stock attached then you must keep the barrel at least 18" and OAL at least 26" unless you register it as a SBS (with stock)or AOW (with pistol grip).

Now for the original question, I wouldn't waste the time or money to register a $75 shotgun, unless you happen to have $200 burning a hole in your pocket.

 

[Blkhrt13]

A shot gun is not an SBR as long as it has at least an 18" long barrel AND is over 26" in OAL.

The only reason that the Mossberg Shockwave and similar are legal is the fact that they are made on virgin receivers that has NEVER had a shoulder stock nor is it designed to be fired from the shoulder.

So if a shotgun has ever had a stock attached then you must keep the barrel at least 18" and OAL at least 26" unless you register it as a SBS (with stock)or AOW (with pistol grip).

Now for the original question, I wouldn't waste the time or money to register a $75 shotgun, unless you happen to have $200 burning a hole in your pocket.

Yes I understand that. I was saying I might cut the model 12 down to sbs length one day. No time soon mind you. As opposed to doing the sing shot I bought to chop up. They are also becoming a lot harder to come by. But I will prolly just cut the model 12 at twenty for now. I want to get reloading first.

 

[Gordon]

Model 12 riot guns are all 20" I believe as I have one and seen alot of them. I'll have to measure but I doubt there is much to shorten past 18" on them . If you like short barrel Luparas , get a used double barrel sound one from the postwar era for $300 or so and cut it to front of forend and make a sloping pistol grip or 11" butt lop .Those are worth a $200 stamp !

 

[Blkhrt13]

Model 12 riot guns are all 20" I believe as I have one and seen alot of them. I'll have to measure but I doubt there is much to shorten past 18" on them . If you like short barrel Luparas , get a used double barrel sound one from the postwar era for $300 or so and cut it to front of forehead and make a sloping pistol grip or 11" butt lop .Those are worth a $200 stamp !

Yeah I took some measurements the 12 doesn’t cut down too much less than the 18 inches to be worth the stamp.

 

[mavracer]

20" would be the correct length for a M12 trench gun.

 

[dogtown tom]

mavracer...thats beautiful!

 

[mavracer]

Thanks it was a generic plain barrel M12 with a poly choke I found a Cabelas for a decent price. Got the reproduction shroud, rear sling swivel and corn cob foreend.
Even found a reproduction bayonet.
It's no wonder the Germans called Marines Devil Dogs.

 

[12Bravo20]

I was just going to comment and ask where the bayonet was until I scrolled sown to see it.

A trench gun and M16A1/A2 clone must have a bayonet.

 

[Gordon]

I have a lot of experience with the shotgun, every kind of shotgun. I trained on sub 18" shotgun, been in combat with an Ithaca model 37 LAPD Deerslayer style shot gun with an 18" or 20" barrel ( can' t accurately remember 55 years ago. ) And developed three generations of 870 police 18" guns for thirty five years training. I also have a former AOW Ithaca stake out 20 gauge which I used as a cane assistance with a 22" rifle sighted and Lazer lighted barrel and a crutch tip loosely taped on muzzle, but never fired with it in place just used at night around property because of bad knees. In far distance history not knowing better played with
410, 20 gauge and 13 gauge sxs and single barrels with and without shoulder stocks. I have come to believe the ideal length for a anti personel shotgun is 18" or 20" with a stock from 12-13" long. Also from many rounds of every description tested the performance is better all around than 14" guns . If one wants a little shorty SBS more power to them and I may do that to a SBS , around 10" , and legal, just because they are a fun toy, especially in 20 or .410 gauge. Shortening a pump or semi automatic below 18" is ,IMHO a rather wasted effort and expense. Remember I have extensively trained on 14.5" Bennellis and 870 s and would rather have them in 18" for performance reasons just my perspective.

 

[Blkhrt13]

I have a lot of experience with the shotgun, every kind of shotgun. I trained on sub 18" shotgun, been in combat with an Ithaca model 37 LAPD Deerslayer style shot gun with an 18" or 20" barrel ( can' t accurately remember 55 years ago. ) And developed three generations of 870 police 18" guns for thirty five years training. I also have a former AOW Ithaca stake out 20 gauge which I used as a cane assistance with a 22" rifle sighted and Lazer lighted barrel and a crutch tip loosely taped on muzzle, but never fired with it in place just used at night around property because of bad knees. In far distance history not knowing better played with
410, 20 gauge and 13 gauge sxs and single barrels with and without shoulder stocks. I have come to believe the ideal length for a anti personel shotgun is 18" or 20" with a stock from 12-13" long. Also from many rounds of every description tested the performance is better all around than 14" guns . If one wants a little shorty SBS more power to them and I may do that to a SBS , around 10" , and legal, just because they are a fun toy, especially in 20 or .410 gauge. Shortening a pump or semi automatic below 18" is ,IMHO a rather wasted effort and expense. Remember I have extensively trained on 14.5" Bennellis and 870 s and would rather have them in 18" for performance reasons just my perspective.

I have a lot of experience with the shotgun, every kind of shotgun. I trained on sub 18" shotgun, been in combat with an Ithaca model 37 LAPD Deerslayer style shot gun with an 18" or 20" barrel ( can' t accurately remember 55 years ago. ) And developed three generations of 870 police 18" guns for thirty five years training. I also have a former AOW Ithaca stake out 20 gauge which I used as a cane assistance with a 22" rifle sighted and Lazer lighted barrel and a crutch tip loosely taped on muzzle, but never fired with it in place just used at night around property because of bad knees. In far distance history not knowing better played with
410, 20 gauge and 13 gauge sxs and single barrels with and without shoulder stocks. I have come to believe the ideal length for a anti personel shotgun is 18" or 20" with a stock from 12-13" long. Also from many rounds of every description tested the performance is better all around than 14" guns . If one wants a little shorty SBS more power to them and I may do that to a SBS , around 10" , and legal, just because they are a fun toy, especially in 20 or .410 gauge. Shortening a pump or semi automatic below 18" is ,IMHO a rather wasted effort and expense. Remember I have extensively trained on 14.5" Bennellis and 870 s and would rather have them in 18" for performance reasons just my perspective.

That’s really good input thank you. This post is the kind of thing that makes this forum a better place. It’s the wisdom of our contributors.