Scenario scenario... Yeehaw.

[reagansquad]

Here's a good one;

You are visiting a close friend or family member (cousin, uncle, etc) and you are out in the front yard in the country... 2 big biker types from up the road come to his place start yelling at your family member/friend. The family member yells back, plenty of obscenities, "Get off of my property" etc. Then, one biker type punches your friend/family member in the face while the other pulls a bat out of his car and goes for them. You are carrying. What do you do?

I guess my main concern here is whether or not you can defend a close family member from attack if he had a chance to retreat and didn't, or if they were verbally involved in the escalation of the encounter.

 

[wmenorr67]

If they are close enough to hit family member with fists and next guy is bringing out a bat, I am bringing out the gun. If I am with a family member it is not only my right but my obligation to protect them, even if it is from their own stupidity. But if the bad guys have already attacked my family member, or even my friend, and are getting ready to escalte(sp) the situation with weapons what is to say that they don't attack you next?

 

[Tim McBride]

Under Az law shooting the biker with the bat would be legal, IIRC...(Defense of a third party from death or severe bodily harm)

 

[Joe Demko]

Some bikers are 'bout to get shot.

 

[victory]

lets looks at the details. The bikers are on private property, property owned by your relative, who, despite being a bit foul mouthed was not the one who struck first. He is against 2 large men, one of whom is now weilding a weapon.

Very easy to defend shooting the guy with the bat. The other guy will probably run off.

 

[Kramer Krazy]

"<snip>...2 big biker types from up the road...<snip>"

Hey! Leave me and my buddy out of this......I'm actually a bit offended at this stereotype..... For the sake of argument, we'll say your bikers are 1%er wannabe, Budweiser-drinkin', trailer-livin', Ford 4x4 drivin', drug pushin', welfare takin', sister's-name-on-the-water-tower, white-trash who have a reputation of having spent time in jail...........

Actually, most hard-core biker types I know usually carry at LEAST a knife, and quite often a gun, so I'd keep that in consideration in this scenerio. If one of them is grabbing a bat, they are not inclined to kill, just injure, but I'd be leery of one carrying a more potent weapon (then again, with a really good swing of a bat to the head, I'd probably prefer to be stabbed). I've also never known any of them to get into an altercation without cause. They get stereotyped enough, and get into enough trouble with the cops for "looking" a certain way, that they try to keep a low profile....usually. I know a few Hell's Angels and Outlaw members, and, unless they are doing a club function, you'd never know that they were "bikers". They downplay the "look". One of them wears bright colored and Hawaiian-type shirts. Anyway, I'd figure your buddy/family member is hanging with the wrong crowd and doing things he shouldn't, in which case, I'm going to decrease my association with him after this. If I'd read something like what you wrote in the local newspaper, I'd figure that the writer was biased against "bikers" and left out the fact that they were provoked in some way.........

Anyway, but to answer your question, I'd figure your friend or relative had a previous encounter with these guys and it has come to this. I usually can diffuse a situation before it gets out of hand (even if I have to apologize or say I'm wrong when I feel that I am in the right and have nothing to apologize for), but if it escalated to that point where one is hitting my friend/buddy and the other is grabbing a bat, and words weren't making the situation any better, I'd pull my gun and be VERY prepared to use it, putting a round into their car may show them that you are serious, but may also piss them off enough to where they kick into that "I don't care mode" and come after you even with a gun in your hands, taking the odds that you won't actually use it on them. You never know, they may be on LSD, PCP, or something else that helps them kick into "God" mode. Once I'm positive the situation is controlled with my firearm drawn, I'll call the cops on my cell. Thing to consider here, is that if you pull a gun on a hard-core "biker", quite often, they'll pull one on you.....or, they'll get you later. It's really a judgement call that you can only make once in the situation and depending on what you think you could get away with. It may be easier to kill them both, bury them somewhere in the back "40", and part their car out and sell it on eBay......In reality, though, I'd diffuse the whole situation by simply offering the guys a beer and we'd discuss everything in a civil manner while drinking. It does work. Have you ever seen a Harley rider drive past a bar that is open?

By the way, I ride a 1985 Harley, but I CAN drive past a bar.......only because my range time and ammo made me broke.

 

[1%er]

thankyou

Actually, most hard-core biker types I know usually carry at LEAST a knife, and quite often a gun, so I'd keep that in consideration in this scenerio. If one of them is grabbing a bat, they are not inclined to kill, just injure, but I'd be leery of one carrying a more potent weapon (then again, with a really good swing of a bat to the head, I'd probably prefer to be stabbed). I've also never known any of them to get into an altercation without cause. They get stereotyped enough, and get into enough trouble with the cops for "looking" a certain way, that they try to keep a low profile....usually. I know a few Hell's Angels and Outlaw members, and, unless they are doing a club function, you'd never know that they were "bikers". They downplay the "look". One of them wears bright colored and Hawaiian-type shirts.

This reply is over a year old HOWEVER Thankyou for an accurate rendition of what you have observed in your life..................

 

[Kramer Krazy]

This reply is over a year old HOWEVER Thankyou for an accurate rendition of what you have observed in your life..................

Not a problem, 1%er. I think too many people get their opinions of bikers from those cheesey '60's movies.

 

[JamisJockey]

Castle Doctrine

Duty to retreat ends typically at your property line.
"Get off my property"
So, then after being told to stay off of private property, the biker's attack with a weapon anyways.
Start the music, we gonna dance.