Scheel's Delayed Blowback Buffer

[BreechFace]

Anyone have any personal experience with one of these kits?

Scheel's Delayed Blowback Buffer

They are expensive for what they are, especially when there isn't much customer base to base any performance on, but would be a nice option for blowback PCC's.

I have an PSA AR-V, essentially an AR PCC with a Scorpion patterned magwell (PSA has their own Scorpion patterned mag that is cheap and good quality). The AR-V is direct blowback and I thought this would be a good candidate to try something like this as if it works would help with back pressure from being suppressed as well as potentially mitigate some bolt bounce and OOB potentials.

Some of the concerns that many brought up when it was first rolled out was wear on the "proprietary" buffer tube as the steel rollers engage the buffer tube on each cycle. Another concern was how the buffer stays in alignment with the buffer tube notches.

The developer of it said both of these concerns have not been an issue, he has 10,000 rounds (probably more now) through his with no appreciable wear to the aluminum buffer tube notches. He also replied that with the aforementioned concern as well as the buffer alignment they were both his concerns and both ended up being a non-issue. He said the buffer will rotate a degree or two in the tube but wants to follow a linear path due to the rollers and once they hit the notch they self-correct any minor misalignment for the next cycle.

 

[chevrofreak]

Two of my friends shoot for Davinci Machining, who uses the Scheel buffer in their PCC's, and they have had no problems with wear or broken parts in their rifles. I installed one in my girlfriend's PCC and I can attest that it works very well.

They have a new Gen 2 version now and one of the Davinci shooters is going to let me borrow it to compare to the Gen 1.

 

[BreechFace]

Two of my friends shoot for Davinci Machining, who uses the Scheel buffer in their PCC's, and they have had no problems with wear or broken parts in their rifles. I installed one in my girlfriend's PCC and I can attest that it works very well.

They have a new Gen 2 version now and one of the Davinci shooters is going to let me borrow it to compare to the Gen 1.

I don't see any generation versions on their website, whats the improvements over the Gen1? And do you know when they will be available to purchase?

If the Gen2 is and improvement and is coming out soon, I will just wait for that.

Thank you for your input, it seems like the few things I've heard about the system have been positive with no problems with wear and function. But there is limited exposure and with the $300 price it brings a lot of hesitancy.

 

[someguy2800]

If you want one I have one new in the box that I was going to put on gunbroker.

 

[chevrofreak]

I don't see any generation versions on their website, whats the improvements over the Gen1? And do you know when they will be available to purchase?

If the Gen2 is and improvement and is coming out soon, I will just wait for that.

Thank you for your input, it seems like the few things I've heard about the system have been positive with no problems with wear and function. But there is limited exposure and with the $300 price it brings a lot of hesitancy.

https://coreys28.sg-host.com/product/pre-order-sale-roller-delayed-buffer-system-gen2/

 

[BreechFace]

If you want one I have one new in the box that I was going to put on gunbroker.

You never got around to installing it? Did you go with something else?

 

[someguy2800]

You never got around to installing it? Did you go with something else?

I had a radial delayed blowback setup for awhile but could never get to work reliably so I bought back my old blowback upper that I sold to a friend. I was going to put this in it but I decided to just keep it simple and leave it blowback and just shoot light loads.

 

[someguy2800]

Seeing as how its about to become obsolete from the looks of it, I'll sell it for $200

 

[BreechFace]

I have an email into Davinci Manufacturing to give me some insight into their Gen2, the link that @chevrofreak provided shows the new Gen2 and it does look better machined with more options for tuning. I may end up just going that route, we'll see. I'm not in a hurry just gathering information at this point.

 

[BreechFace]

I received word back from Davinci who referred me to email Scheel directly, once I get an email for him, I'm going to email with some questions.

Most of these are being run in 3gun competition with lighter loads, I'm looking at it from a different point of view, mine will be running behind a suppressor and will be shooting varied loads from 124gr to 147gr and desire some additional delay for preventing bolt bounce and OOB detonations. I haven't had any, but I understand what it takes on blowback systems and buffer springs and weight setups to prevent those, but an added delay in unlocking would be a great benefit in my mind on a simple blowback 9mm PCC.

I really like the PSA Scorpion patterned mags as they are cheap, well made and good capacity; and this is one of the few options for a delayed blowback system that will work with this type of PCC.

 

[someguy2800]

Thats what I bought it for also. I have two identical upper I built with 10.5" barrels. One has a thread adapter for my suppressor on it and the other has a krink brake. I have a 147 gr hollowpoint load that I used with the suppressor on my glock 19 and my CMMG radial setup, but that load is supersonic out of the longer 10.5" AR, so I had to work up another load just for the AR9 to keep it sub. That load is so light it won't cycle my pistols. I get a little bit of port noise on it, but honestly can't really tell much difference between it and my CMMG, so I just decided to leave well enough alone.

My thinking was its working fine with both uppers the way it is and I can switch without needing to change springs in the roller buffer. Maybe I wouldn't need to anyway. Perhaps I will throw it on quick and see.

 

[Walkalong]

That's pretty cool, kind of pricey though

 

[BreechFace]

That's pretty cool, kind of pricey though

my thoughts on both accounts.

 

[someguy2800]

Well I guess I have a review for you after all I decided to screw it on and give it a try and it works.



My original concern that caused me not to use it was that it would be finicky and require me to change springs when switching loads but that proved to be an unfounded concern. It ran everything I have from my very lightest sub load to my hottest self defense loads with 124 and 147 grain bullets. Every load I threw at it cycled and locked back with no issues.

I started with my lightest load which is pretty much a mouse fart load using a 147 gr coated bullet over like 2.8 grains of titegroup or something like that. It does 900 fps out of the 10” barrel and is too light to cycle a glock 19. I put it together with the recommended start point of the heavier recoil spring, a heavy roller spring in hole 1 and light roller spring in hole 2. I wasn’t expecting it to even cycle with this light load but it cycled and locked back even after changing to 2 heavy roller springs, and then 3 heavy roller springs. It is quieter than my straight blowback parts which are a solid buffer and a +10% AR10 recoil spring. I do still have the weight in the back of my bolt.

One thing I will note is that with 1 heavy and 1 light recoil spring it is pretty easy to pull the bolt back from the locked position, not much harder than opening a normal 5.56 AR. With 2 heavy springs it’s noticeably difficult to open the bolt, and with 3 heavy springs you really have to yank on it. It is also very difficult I get the rollers compressed to get the buffer back out of the tube with 2 or 3 heavy springs in. I couldn’t really tell much difference shooting with the heavy springs so I decided to just go back to the recommended setting.

One other thing I’ll note is that the recoil springs provided are VERY light. They are so light that when I close the bolt from the LRBHO the bolt kind of closes in slow motion. I run all my AR’s dry though and this one is pretty dirty. If you are going to run this setup I think you would want to run it wet just because the recoil spring is so light that even just being dirty could cause failure to go in battery I think.

I think I’m going to take the weight out of the back of my bolt and retest again with a carbine spring with a few coils cut off.

 

[chevrofreak]

Well I guess I have a review for you after all I decided to screw it on and give it a try and it works.

View attachment 1126880

My original concern that caused me not to use it was that it would be finicky and require me to change springs when switching loads but that proved to be an unfounded concern. It ran everything I have from my very lightest sub load to my hottest self defense loads with 124 and 147 grain bullets. Every load I threw at it cycled and locked back with no issues.

I started with my lightest load which is pretty much a mouse fart load using a 147 gr coated bullet over like 2.8 grains of titegroup or something like that. It does 900 fps out of the 10” barrel and is too light to cycle a glock 19. I put it together with the recommended start point of the heavier recoil spring, a heavy roller spring in hole 1 and light roller spring in hole 2. I wasn’t expecting it to even cycle with this light load but it cycled and locked back even after changing to 2 heavy roller springs, and then 3 heavy roller springs. It is quieter than my straight blowback parts which are a solid buffer and a +10% AR10 recoil spring. I do still have the weight in the back of my bolt.

One thing I will note is that with 1 heavy and 1 light recoil spring it is pretty easy to pull the bolt back from the locked position, not much harder than opening a normal 5.56 AR. With 2 heavy springs it’s noticeably difficult to open the bolt, and with 3 heavy springs you really have to yank on it. It is also very difficult I get the rollers compressed to get the buffer back out of the tube with 2 or 3 heavy springs in. I couldn’t really tell much difference shooting with the heavy springs so I decided to just go back to the recommended setting.

One other thing I’ll note is that the recoil springs provided are VERY light. They are so light that when I close the bolt from the LRBHO the bolt kind of closes in slow motion. I run all my AR’s dry though and this one is pretty dirty. If you are going to run this setup I think you would want to run it wet just because the recoil spring is so light that even just being dirty could cause failure to go in battery I think.

I think I’m going to take the weight out of the back of my bolt and retest again with a carbine spring with a few coils cut off.

This video was never intended to be made public, I just uploaded it to be able to watch it elsewhere. This is my girlfriend's competition PCC that basically never gets cleaned, with the Scheel buffer and a moderate power load. I am literally just holding the gun firmly enough to hold it upright, attempting to induce a malfunction by limp wristing it.

 

[someguy2800]

I did some more experimenting. I did take the weight out of the back of my bolt so now down to 12.4 ounces for the bolt and 6.4 ounces for the scheel roller buffer. I had to cut 13 coils off a carbine spring to get the bolt to lock back. Since the spring now starts behind the buffer instead of near the front as with a normal carbine buffer, the bolt now bottoms out on the spring coil binding before it gets to the plastic buffer. I am probably going to 3d print a new longer buffer spacer to go in the back of the buffer tube and keep the spring from coil binding. I did also change the springs to 2 heavy roller springs. It still locks back on my 147 gr 900 fps load and the bolt closes with more authority now. I think the very light recoil springs that are sent with the kit would be fine for a competition gun to minimize dot bounce but you'll want to keep it clean and oiled. For a more general purpose gun or dare I say it, a defensive gun, I think a cut down carbine spring is probably a better idea for reliability.

 

[BreechFace]

@someguy2800 thanks for the review. I had a similar thought on the spring, it does look very light duty. And this is geared towards 3gun competitions, whereas my use would be general range practice and SD drills. This would not be a self defense choice for me as I have other carbines for that use.

I think I may order one of their gen2’s but am still on the fence.

@chevrofreak thanks for the slow-mo, that helps to see the action run.