School me on shotguns

[mr_goodbomb]

I've always liked shotguns for defense purposes, but I don't have an incredible amount of experience with them.

A few things. Slug guns, can they fire standard shotgun rounds? What's the major difference between a slug gun and a normal shotgun?

Gauge... What is 20 and 410 good for? I know that, as a filmmaker, 20ga was difficult to find blanks for, which is why I mainly am interested in 12 now. 410 can apparently take .45 blanks, which is a plus, but for practical uses as an actual weapon firing real rounds, I'm not too sure what a .410 is good for.

Over-Under... For my purposes, I've always liked doubles for appearance and practicality (I believe in ammo conservation in survival situations or preparing for them, so I like the idea of being limited to 2 shots and reloading by hand. Pumps make sense for obvious reasons. But what's the purpose of an over-under?

Bird shot, buck shot... What are the major differences here?

Thank you for the info.

 

[Milkmaster]

I recommend a great deal of reading starting with the sticky threads at the top of the shotgun forum. Here is a link to help you get there quickly...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=464149

 

[btz]

20's and 410's are good for young shooters, as well as being more maneuverable because of their lighter weight.
Difference between bird shot and buckshot is simply size, for example, #6 birdshot is .110", and 00 buckshot is .330"

 

[Tim the student]

I would not consider myself an expert, but here are my thoughts.

Slug guns, can they fire standard shotgun rounds?

They can, but rifled bores will make bird shot pattern like crap. Smooth bore will shoot them fine, but the sights may impede wingshooting. Most guys I know use a different barrel for shooting slugs. FYI, you don't need a "slug gun" to shoot slugs. An 870 bird barrel will shoot slugs fine. Lots of guys here hunt deer with nothing more than a front bead and kill a deer every year.

Gauge... What is 20 and 410 good for?

In short, hunting and clay games with less (usually) recoil.

For my purposes, I've always liked doubles for appearance and practicality (I believe in ammo conservation in survival situations or preparing for them, so I like the idea of being limited to 2 shots and reloading by hand.

Well, with pumps and autos, you have the opportunity to only load 2, or to only pull the trigger twice. It isn't a requirement to load it to capacity. You can even be wild and crazy and only load one shell. Kind of silly to call that more practical, IMO.

But what's the purpose of an over-under?

Some think they have better balance, or they swing better. I think it will depend mostly on fit, but longer barrels do - which some O/Us will have, not all - (IMHO) swing a bit smoother. Some think they have better aesthetics. I tend to agree, unless we are talking about a cheap (not inexpensive, but cheap) O/U. For some guys, I think they are a sort of badge of honor. Hard to explain, but it seems that way sometimes. Many O/Us are very, very durable - which is something the serious clay guys appreciate. Also, on many guns, you can get different barrel sets, so you can have a 12 on down to a 28 on the same receiver. But, the biggest practical advantage that I see is that you can use different chokes in each barrel. I think this is a real advantage.

Bird shot, buck shot... What are the major differences here?

Well, bird shot is for birds. (Clay games use smaller birdshot too.) Buck shot is for hunting large game and self/home defense. Buck shot is illegal in some places to hunt deer with, and not many guys seem to do it even when legal. Slugs are for hunting large game and SD/HD.

 

[Kendal Black]

You can get some good basic information here: http://www.remington.com/pages/news-and-resources/downloads/brochure-downloads.aspx

Start with the "Remington Guide to Shotguns." It'll tell you about things like gauges, shot sizes, chokes, patterns, action types and so on, while mentioning, sometimes, sort of off-the-cuff like, that Remington sells shotguns and ammunition.

Shotgunnery is a little confusing. For example, #4 birdshot is not at all the same as #4 buckshot.

 

[FLNT4EVR]

MR GOODBOMB , Don't be putting 45 anythings in a .410 shotgun. A .410 shotgun is measured in caliber.It is the only shotgun that is.A .45 caliber rnd measures .452 and is way to large to pass thru a .410 barrel .Serious injuries to the shooter and any bystanders could result.

 

[Fred Fuller]

In addition to the material already posted here on the Shotgun forum, see the following for some basics...

http://www.americaoutdoors.com/shooting/features/basics.htm

http://www.thecheckcord.com/archives/shotgunprimer.html

http://carteach0.blogspot.com/2009/02/home-defense-shotgun-ammunition-basics.html

http://www.gunsandammo.com/content/the-home-defense-shotgun

The best way to get good experience fast is at the hands of someone who can teach you what you need to know. Safety is JOB ONE. It's bad enough to have an accident with any firearm, with a shotgun... well, it's apt to be worse. So 'get safe' first. Start here with the four rules, from the original source, as taught through the decades:

We hoped by this time that the standard rules of safe gunhandling would have become universal throughout the world. They have been arrived at by careful consideration over the years, and they do not need modification or addition. We trust that all the family have them by heart in all languages, but for those who came in late here they are again:

1) All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.
2) Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. (For those who insist that this particular gun is unloaded, see Rule 1.)
3) Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target. This is the Golden Rule. Its violation is directly responsible for about 60 percent of inadvertent discharges.
4) Identify your target, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.

Those will do. We need all four and we do not need five. It should not be necessary to belabor this issue, but life is not perfect. -- http://harris.dvc.org.uk/jeff/jeff11_4.html

Always remember - safety first. Safety last. Safety always. If you are not demonstrably safe to be around when you are in possession of a firearm, and reflexively, unconsciously so, only those who are not acquainted with proper gun-handling - or equally careless - will tolerate your company. Old pharts like me often get positively old-maidish about the subject of gun safety. If you ever see a rathole wound in another human from a shotgun at close range, you tend to get very conscious regarding safety, and stay that way.

I'd suggest you explore some of the NRA's shotgun related classes that might be available in your local area. See http://www.nrainstructors.org/searchcourse.aspx to get started.

hth, and Stay Safe,

lpl

 

[mr_goodbomb]

Well, with pumps and autos, you have the opportunity to only load 2, or to only pull the trigger twice. It isn't a requirement to load it to capacity. You can even be wild and crazy and only load one shell. Kind of silly to call that more practical, IMO.

I appreciate the overall post, just wanted to comment here. It may seem odd, but I'm very OCD. It's for similar reason I dislike the idea of big semi-auto rifles and pistols. The idea of a shooter wasting ammo and continually pulling the trigger just bothers me. If you can't hit it in 5 or 6 shots with a revolver, or 2 with a shotgun, I have trouble believing that someone will do so with added shots at the distance that reasonable for a pistol or shotgun. I think of the remark on the Zombieland IMFDB, as the main character uses a Stoeger early on in the film, which seems impractical. However, the likelihood of someone wasting ammo in a survival situation, where ammo isn't easy to find or readily available, seems probable, and a limited number of shots available would solve that.

In addition to the material already posted here on the Shotgun forum, see the following for some basics...

http://www.americaoutdoors.com/shooting/features/basics.htm

http://www.thecheckcord.com/archives/shotgunprimer.html

http://carteach0.blogspot.com/2009/02/home-defense-shotgun-ammunition-basics.html

http://www.gunsandammo.com/content/the-home-defense-shotgun

The best way to get good experience fast is at the hands of someone who can teach you what you need to know. Safety is JOB ONE. It's bad enough to have an accident with any firearm, with a shotgun... well, it's apt to be worse. So 'get safe' first. Start here with the four rules, from the original source, as taught through the decades:

We hoped by this time that the standard rules of safe gunhandling would have become universal throughout the world. They have been arrived at by careful consideration over the years, and they do not need modification or addition. We trust that all the family have them by heart in all languages, but for those who came in late here they are again:

1) All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.
2) Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. (For those who insist that this particular gun is unloaded, see Rule 1.)
3) Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target. This is the Golden Rule. Its violation is directly responsible for about 60 percent of inadvertent discharges.
4) Identify your target, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.

Those will do. We need all four and we do not need five. It should not be necessary to belabor this issue, but life is not perfect. -- http://harris.dvc.org.uk/jeff/jeff11_4.html

Always remember - safety first. Safety last. Safety always. If you are not demonstrably safe to be around when you are in possession of a firearm, and reflexively, unconsciously so, only those who are not acquainted with proper gun-handling - or equally careless - will tolerate your company. Old pharts like me often get positively old-maidish about the subject of gun safety. If you ever see a rathole wound in another human from a shotgun at close range, you tend to get very conscious regarding safety, and stay that way.

I'd suggest you explore some of the NRA's shotgun related classes that might be available in your local area. See http://www.nrainstructors.org/searchcourse.aspx to get started.

hth, and Stay Safe,

lpl

I appreciate your post. I'm not new to shooting, or guns in general, but my experience with certain things is limited. I appreciate it, though. I think I'm fairly safe.

 

[Fred Fuller]

The idea of a shooter wasting ammo and continually pulling the trigger just bothers me.

Do yourself a favor and go watch a 3-gun match (IPSC) in your area, or a shotgun side match at an IDPA shoot. You need to see what a practiced shooter with a shotgun can do 'continually pulling the trigger.'

The likelihood of someone wasting ammo in a survival situation, where ammo isn't easy to find or readily available, seems probable, and a limited number of shots available would solve that.

The circumstances dictate the response, not the shooter. Sometimes two shots at a time just won't cut it. And in a genuine hairy situation (fortunately those are usually few and far between IRL), all that having a limited number of shots available will do is allow the problem to solve the shooter - not the other way around.

Yes, I know - it's in the script. That's been the excuse for a LOT of firearms foolishness on screens small and large over the decades. Doesn't mean you have to continue to perpetuate it though...

lpl

 

[oneounceload]

The purpose of the O/U, just to add a little something, allows you to have a single sighting plane (instead of a wide SxS) that also gives you two shots and can have two different choke constrictions. That comes in handy in hunting and games like sporting clays

 

[mr_goodbomb]

The idea of a shooter wasting ammo and continually pulling the trigger just bothers me.

Do yourself a favor and go watch a 3-gun match (IPSC) in your area, or a shotgun side match at an IDPA shoot. You need to see what a practiced shooter with a shotgun can do 'continually pulling the trigger.'

The likelihood of someone wasting ammo in a survival situation, where ammo isn't easy to find or readily available, seems probable, and a limited number of shots available would solve that.

The circumstances dictate the response, not the shooter. Sometimes two shots at a time just won't cut it. And in a genuine hairy situation (fortunately those are usually few and far between IRL), all that having a limited number of shots available will do is allow the problem to solve the shooter - not the other way around.

Yes, I know - it's in the script. That's been the excuse for a LOT of firearms foolishness on screens small and large over the decades. Doesn't mean you have to continue to perpetuate it though...

lpl

Thanks for that, but my opinions are my own, and especially when it comes to something dictated by my OCD, they're not going anywhere. I think my opinions on something as harmless as ammo capacity and conservation are... well, harmless, and not worth squabbling over. It's not for lack of being informed, it's just how I feel.

 

[WVMountainBoy]

Mr. Goodbomb first of all welcome to the world of shotguns Secondly there is nothing wrong with being a fan of double mouthed shotguns. I have an affinity for rabbit ears myself (hammered) side by sides. Practice with any well made shotgun regardless of configuration will make perfect. As for the gauge question 20's and .410's are good for smaller game. The difference between bird and buck shot is the size and number of pellets in a given load. birdshot being smaller with many more pellets (usually measured in weight of the load instead of number of pellets)

 

[chrome_austex]

Aside from that nonsense about wasting ammo in a semi-automatic, double barrels (and over/unders) are shorter in overall length than automatics and semi-automatics with similar length barrels, so they're relatively compact for a 'long gun'. They're also mechanically simple, which is a boon to weight and their simplicity eliminates a bunch of potential failures.

Get whatever makes you happy.

 

[RTR_RTR]

One q I've had that I didn't feel worthy of it's own thread - What exactly do you get (other than aesthetics) spending 10 grand on an o/u vs <1 grand?

 

[Tim the student]

Check this out. It comes up every now and then. Usually turns into a cheap shotgun vs expensive shotgun debate, with some class stuff, and some less than savory stuff in the mix somewhere.

 

[oneounceload]

RTR -

What you get is a great trigger, perfect balance, and for that price in many guns, a built-to-order stock that FITS and a lot more longevity. Once you have tried a top quality O/U or SxS, you will never bother looking at a Stoeger or similar

 

[RTR_RTR]

Thanks

 

[mr_goodbomb]

Another question, is 3" always magnum-capable, and is 3" particularly common ammo? IE, should I be looking for one that has a 3" chamber, or will others suffice for most purposes?

 

[Pete D.]

About the three inch questions....Yes to all.
Three inch shells are frequently called magnums because their longer length allows more shot than a standard 2 3/4" hull. That being said, it is easy enough to find 2 3/4" loads that have more shot and higher velocity than some three inch loads...go figure.

20's and 410's are good for young shooters, as well as being more maneuverable because of their lighter weight.

That is a common perception. The .410 has the reputation as a "Kid's gun", a starter. There is also a the school of thought that is pretty much opposite that idea and considers the .410 an "expert's gun". Why the two widely differing views? A .410 shotgun is an easy gun to shoot; it is a difficult gun to shoot well.

The 20 gauge is a perfectly acceptable choice for general shooting, in my humble opinion, and a great choice for pursuing upland game and walking for hours while doing so. The guns tend to be lighter than 12 gauges - some are very much so - and that can lead to quicker handling.
The payload of 7/8ths to one ounce of shot matches up with the lighter 12 gauge loads. I suspect that for waterfowl the twenty is not the best choice for many shooters because of its generally lighter shot charges.
Pete

 

[oneounceload]

Another question, is 3" always magnum-capable, and is 3" particularly common ammo? IE, should I be looking for one that has a 3" chamber, or will others suffice for most purposes

The ONLY times I have ever used 3" was in my 20 for ducks and geese back when lead was still legal. You won't need 3" for targets or most upland game. Some like it for turkey, waterfowl, etc. - so it depends on what your planned usage is