Scope mounts and eye relief

[kac624]

Hello all,

I am new here and still relatively new to firearms in general, so any help is much appreciated!

I just purchased by first rifle, a Savage Mark II GXP. It came with a 3-9x40 scope (Bushnell, I believe), and, as the rifle does not have iron sights, I'm trying to make things work with the scope.

The problem is that I can't get the scope back far enough to allow for proper eye relief. When I shoulder the rifle and look through the scope, I can't get a full FOV without uncomfortably jamming my neck forward.

So, I believe I need to get the scope back another two inches or so. The receiver is not drilled/tapped and only takes dovetail mounts, so my options are a bit limited. I found two potential solutions: a dovetail to picatinny rail adapter and an offset dovetail ring mount. Links to each:

http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Profile-Airgun-Picatinny-Adaptor/dp/B001CJ67E6

http://www.dhgate.com/p-ff8080813b2...-optics|QL||&gclid=COPEoq2X57UCFY6e4AodiEwAeA

Do you think these might allow me to get the scope back enough (~2")? What other solutions might I try? Is there something I am not considering, like a problem with the scope itself or maybe issues with my cheek weld or how I'm shouldering the rifle?

One more thing, I currently have my scope rigged up in a way that I'm sure is problematic. I've laid down both rings behind the ejection port and connected them to the objective lens side of the elevation/windage dials on the scope to try and position it back farther. It's still not really adequate, but it's closer. I'd like to ask if anyone sees major problems with this setup, both for learning's sake and because I suspect I may have to rig the scope similarly even if I get one of the above-mentioned pieces to get the proper eye relief. (refer to pics to see what I mean)

Thanks again!

 

[ole farmerbuck]

I dont know but maybe you need to have the stock cut off an inch or two.

 

[PlaneJain]

Check this option out. The 2 suggestions you have are doable, one is chinese junk, and may not hold over time. This company makes quality options:

http://www.diproductsinc.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=164826&CAT=3602

 

[jstein650]

Believe me, no one's being snarky here, but how tall are you? With most any factory stock, and standard scopes, the eyepiece bell is usually located less than midway through the pistol grip of such a stock, usually further forward. Is it possible your 'scope has a ER or extended eye relief? Some 'Scout' 'scopes are set as such.

 

[WardenWolf]

UTG's rail hardware is not just "Chinese junk". It's rock-solid. It'll stand the test of time.

 

[Fire_Moose]

Ya, I'd check if you can get a full FOV by moving you head back some...

Sent from my CZ85 Combat

 

[kac624]

Thanks for all the replies, guys.

Cutting the stock might become necessary, but I'm hoping not to have to resort to that. The guns feels fine as of now.

No problem asking about my height. But at 5'9", I'm only a bit under average. Think it could still be an issue?

The rail you suggested looks great, but my receiver isn't drilled or tapped, I only have dovetail grooves. I also need something that will extend back to get the scope closer to my eye.

And I don't think it has extended eye relief. I have to move my head forward to get a full FOV. Moving back only shrinks the view.

I'm thinking the UTG dovetail rail might be best. But what about mounting the scope like I have in the pics (both rings on the front half of the scope)? Think it's too prone to slippage?

 

[chicharrones]

No problem asking about my height. But at 5'9", I'm only a bit under average. Think it could still be an issue?


And I don't think it has extended eye relief. I have to move my head forward to get a full FOV. Moving back only shrinks the view.

I'm 5' 9" and I don't have to move my scopes back that far. That doesn't mean you don't have to, I'm just relating how it works for me.

One thing to check if you haven't already is, how does the eye relief work for you when in a prone shooting position or a bench shooting position? For me, those two positions naturally position your head further forward on the stock than if standing.

 

[idcurrie]

That scope is ridiculously far back. It's totally unacceptable. There's no way ANYONE could require that scope that far back. Even if it only had a 1" eye relief, you'd barely be on the stock...

There's something wrong with:

Your technique (do you even have a cheek weld)

-OR-

The scope

You could try replacing the scope with a quality piece.

I have a Leupold 2-7x28 rimfire on my Savage Mark 2. It works very well.

Edit: that's a bushnell 'sharpshooter' which is a $25 throw away scope made under a few different brand names. It's not even a rimfire scope. Replace it.

 

[chas08]

idcurrie said; "That scope is ridiculously far back."

I have to agree! I've never seen a scope have to be pulled that far back! Something has to be wrong with either the scope or your technique! Two more inches back would put the ocular bell well past the wrist of the stock! That cant be right!

 

[Pacsd]

My guess is technique as well. Perhaps some coaching will cure the eye relief problem.

 

[Haxby]

Don't cut anything or order any parts until you decide if the scope is worth keeping.
How far away from the scope is your eyebrow, when you're close enough to get a full fov? Check that at 3X and at 9X.
If it's only an inch or two, the problem is the scope.

 

[Doug b]

Shouldn't there be a turret on the top and a turret on the right?

 

[Bobson]

That's a bushnell 'sharpshooter' which is a $25 throw away scope made under a few different brand names. It's not even a rimfire scope. Replace it.

Agreed. I'd take the whole rifle to a shop with optics, and see if they'll let you test the optics on a test rifle or plastic stock. Lots of shops are doing this now, so it shouldn't be an issue. Once you find the optic you want, have them mount it for you, based on your head position on the stock.

This video on setting up a scope probably won't solve your problem, but I highly recommend you watch it anyway.

 

[adelbridge]

Shouldn't there be a turret on the top and a turret on the right?

scope is definitely mounted upside down and no way to practically zero it. There is all kinds of wrong here that needs to be addressed before you can worry about relief. Youtube how to mount a scope, if you walk into a shop like this they are going to be biting their lips.

 

[idcurrie]

Shouldn't there be a turret on the top and a turret on the right?

Yes! The scope is installed upside down (verticle adjustments doing windage!)

 

[desidog]

With decent recoil you'll brain yourself; instead of just getting scope-eye. That is just downright dangerous.

Does the scope have any eye relief adjustment? It ought to.

Also, as per their website, didn't the rig come with the scope mounted and boresighted already?

 

[kac624]

Yes, the scope is on its side because its so far back that the windage dial interfered when working the bolt. I had the scope set up before according to how I was instructed from videos and a friend at the range and I believe it was correct. I haven't actually shot with this setup yet, I was just seeing how far back I could get it. And from the responses, I think it's good I asked before taking it to the range...

So it's either the scope or my technique. I've attached a pic of me with the rifle shouldered and my face forward enough for a full FOV. That's at 3x. It think I'm only like 2 inches off. Thoughts?

The rifle didn't come with the scope mounted. Like I said, I had it mounted normally before and got help zeroing it, but I couldn't make much use of it because I could hardly see properly when using it standing (on the bench was not as much of a problem because its easy to bring your face closer). Afterwards, I came up with the setup pictured above. I'll be sure to share it with no one else....

Again, thanks for all the help! I certainly need it....

 

[Sun Tzu warrior]

The picture in post #18 looks like about the normal eye relief. Try turning your torso about 45 degrees to the right from your target, as opposed to a right angle (90degrees)
or directly facing the target. When I shoulder a rifle, my nose is generally right above the back of the pistol grip on the stock where your thumb knuckle is in that picture. I don't think there is anything wrong with the equipment.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

Strange problem, I always have the problem that I cannot get a scope far enough forward...

I can't see very much of your standing position in the picture, but either your body geometry is very unique or your position just needs a little work.

Position basics for standing (no sling)...

Stand with your body almost 90 degrees to the target (your chest should be basically facing the person in the next lane)

Bring the rifle up to your cheek as you shoulder it. Approx 1/2 of the buttplate should be sticking up over your shoulder.

Your firing arm should be held up about level in a "chicken wing". This deepens the natural pocket on your shoulder that the toe of the rifle butt is resting in and helps hold the rifle in place.

Your support hand should be a comfortable distance out on the stock, probably near the balance point of the rifle. The support arm should be held so your elbow is directly underneath the rifle.

Finally, lift your head up, extend your neck fully forward and drop your head down on the stock. We call this "turkey neck". Having your neck fully extended does several things: first, it gives a consistent cheek placement on the stock for consistent eye relief. Second, if keeps your head from rocking forward under recoil and hitting the scope (not such an issue with a .22, but a good habbit to develop nonetheless)

Try that out and see how it works for you. I know if I shouldered your rifle, either my cheek or my nose would be about where the firing hand thumb grips the stock. I am 6', but even most people shorter than you will end up somewhere similar.

Finally, make some time this spring to get to a Project Appleseed shoot (they are one of the sponsors of this site as well). I am an instructor with Appleseed in Mi, and I know nothing beats a weekend of instruction on how to use your rifle.

 

[idcurrie]

From that picture, it doesn't look like the rifle is tucked into your shoulder at all.

Isn't the but of the rifle right behind that drop at the end of the comb? If so, your technique is definitely the problem.

The rifle gets tucked into the pocket between the ball of your shoulder and your collar bone - a little lower I suppose. It's the soft, fleshy bit.

 

[idcurrie]

To ad, your head should not be completely verticle and upright like you are standing tall. that is not how you shoot a rifle. Maybe you need lower rings. How on earth would you ever shoot iron sights with that posture?

Why don't you try imagining that there are iron sights right along the top of the barrel and line your eye up to them. I bet you won't even be able to because your face will be pressed against the scope.

 

[Keitha]

I'm with most everyone else on this thread:
1) Re-mount the scope correctly - Rings on each side of the windage/elevation turrets and in the correct position. Rotate it 90* (* = degree) clockwise so that the windage turret is facing right and elevation is facing up. Look at other pictures of rifles with scopes and set your up to look similar.
2) Look at pictures of proper rifle holding technique. You don't want the rifle sticking out from your chest at a 90* angle. Rifle should be more like 30* - 45* across your chest. That will put your head much further forward on the stock and should be much more comfortable.
3) You should be able to make this scope work, just it is still a cheap scope. Don't expect too much out of it.

 

[berettaprofessor]

That scope is ridiculously far back.

Yeah, like about +15 here. You're doing something completely wrong and more wrong than just mounting the scope upside down.

Get some professional help in mounting this scope and for God's sake, don't cut off the stock as suggested above!

 

[Keitha]

Here are a few pictues to demonstrate "offhand" shooting positions: