Scope suggestions?

[Greywolf]

I've looked through many, and am just trying to figure out what to spend around $600 on for a rifle scope for a Tikka Tactical .308 rifle.

Want something that I can use up to 1000 yards. Possibly for use for long-range hunting as well as paper punching. Doesn't necessarily have to have mildots, but I suppose it would be nice if I don't have my laser rangerfinder with me.

Most important criteria is CLARITY - the glass MUST be as clear and free of optical defects/waviness/etc. as possible.

I can accept under 20x if need-be. Would like to keep it in or around the 16x range and 50mm or less objective lens. I like a low-mounted scope.

Ruggedness would be nice, but as long as the scope has a good warranty we are cool.

I've looked through Zeiss Conquests, Leupolds, Nikon Tacticals, Burris, etc. as well as some much cheaper ones.

Thoughts, opinions, etc?

 

[redneck2]

I've got an 8x32x44 Burris with mil-dots on my 1,000 yard gun. It's about 450 yards across the lake in front of our house, and I can see birds sitting on the bird houses over there. Bought it on the recommendation of a friend that shoots High Power...he's got 4 of them. Claims it's the best value for the money. Haven't personally compared against anything else at this power range, but IMO Burris makes pretty good optics for the money.

The power level will depend a lot on what your target is the for 1,000 yard thing. Mine's for prarie dogs, so I've got to be able to pick out something real small. Another friend got a dog at 1,018 yards with a .308 and 15x scope, but he said it looked real small

You'll probably get rec's for Nightforce, but I'm not sure they fall within the desired $$$. If you're close to Northern Indiana, there's a local dealer that has a NIB condition Leupold VX III. Something in the range of 6x20x50 IIRC. Wanted $475.

 

[Greywolf]

reneck - what model Burris? I have a Fullfield 2 3-9x40 and a Signature 3-9x40 that I really like. Burris makes a very nice scope.

I've seen their Black Diamond scopes advertised sometimes on the boards, around my price range.

They are coming out soon with their Xtreme Tactical series as well that have 30mm tubes.

I also have read great things about the Sightron line of scopes.

 

[Father Knows Best]

I'm sort of in the same boat. I'm looking to pick up a good scope for my PTR-91 (.308 HK 91 clone). I'll be using it mainly for paper punching at a max range of 600 yards. I was thinking something around 10-14x max mag would be good. I also don't want to spend more than $600. Durability and clarity are musts. The 91 is a rather hard recoiling rifle, and the scope needs to be able to take the pounding.

I'm open to any suggestions.

Is it really worth the additional cost to go to a 30mm over a 1 inch? What are the advantages?

 

[dakotasin]

Is it really worth the additional cost to go to a 30mm over a 1 inch? What are the advantages?

the 30mm tube will have more internal adjustment, so you won't be as close to bottoming out the reticle when you start stretching the range. if the scope is built using 1" internals (as many are), then that is the only advantage. if the scope is built on a true 30mm internal, they do transmit light better - though unless you are shooting in the dark, you will never notice the difference.

for my 1000 yard gun, i put a leupold vx-3 8.5-25 lrt on a 20 moa base. i spent a lot of time looking and comparing, and shooting w/ different scopes, and that one was the best for me. however, it was also a lot over $600...

for $600, i'd reccomend a leupold vx-3 lrt in either 6.5-20 or 4.5-14. the 14 power might be the best practical solution. it is awfully hard to find the perfect conditions where the mirage and such offered by the bigger scopes isn't present...

 

[rbernie]

Sightron S2 6.5-20x 50mm Side Focus Mil-Dot for 1 " rings or Sightron S3 Scope 30mm Tube 6-24x 50mm Side Focus Mil-Dot in 30mm. The S3 will be a wee bit over your budget, but the additional adjustment may be worth it.

 

[redneck2]

Mine is a signature select 8x32x44 with mil-dots. Around $550, but the dealer cuts me some good deals. If you're interested in the Leupold VX III, I'll be in the town where that dealer is next week. I can check to see if it's still there. I think he'd mail it to you.

I'd get it for my AR but I'm laying low on spending money right now.

As dakotasin said, you'll need sloped bases. I got 20 moa ones from Midway

 

[sscoyote]

Good comments, i use to think the best thing since sliced bread was the Burris system with the Ballistic Mil-Dot reticle until Leupold put out their Tactical Milling Reticle (TMR)-- 17.2 MOA of trajectory comensation in a "modified" mil-dot system that uses horizontal stadia instead of dots for much more accurate shot pacement when applying the reticle as a ballistic reticle. Also provides 1/2 mil stadia as well-- best affordable "ballistic reticle" going IMO.

 

[Father Knows Best]

How about this one: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=616711. It's a Burris Signature Select 4-16x44mm with adjustable objective and illuminated ballistic plex reticle. Price is $560.

Any suggestions on rings? I'm mounting it on a weaver style base.

 

[Greywolf]

Father - for just a hair more you might find a Black Diamond Burris on Ebay - unless you have to have an illuminated reticle.

 

[dakotasin]

badger max-50 rings.

 

[moredes]

Burris or Leupold

The majority of shooters will suggest Leupold; it's got bigger brandname recognition--and you'll pay for it. However, Burris offers everything that Leupold does in the way of lifetime guarantees and customer service. I've had to use each company's warranty once, and I was pleased enough with Burris to recommend them here.

In a side by side test between a 6-24x50 Burris Black Diamond and a Leupold 8.5-25x50 Vari-X III LRT, 4 of 5 shooting buddies thought the Burris was clearer and had less distortion out to the edges. Money-wise, that was also about $150 less, but that was almost 4 years ago.

I'd suggest looking for a 4-16x Black Diamond--used, if you can 'stomach it'--the guarantee follows the scope, not the owner, so if you can live with the habitual "slight ring marks" and other light cosmetic blemishes, you can stay under the $600 limit you posed us. You can confirm that with Burris for yourself about their warranty conditions. I'd stay away from the BalMil reticle; I'm not up on their newer line, but the ballistiplex reticle is not set up for .308 (at least, not for the utilitarian target 168/175gr bullets), and you'll find that you'll have to make all manner of adjustments to put the reticle right for shots past 4-500 yd. If a mildot is offered, or another reticle akin to Nightforce's NP-R2, I'd suggest that reticle. Lastly, 20x is nice for up close target work, but out past 200yd on a hot day, the mirage can easily overwhelm magnification past ~10-14x, so you may be paying for more than you need if you opt for a 20x.

The only 'dig' against Burris is that Leupold's great reputation for durability is founded on their scopes' track record with the military. No one seems to know how much of a beating a Burris can take, but from my experience with the two companies' warranty and customer services, I was more than willing to "take a chance" on Burris. I'm just a target shooter, and the gun goes from the case to the ground; I don't drag it through parts unknown battering the scope. In case you wonder about a bias, I've had 6 Leupolds (all Vari-X III LRT's) and had swapped 3 of them out in a campaign for the clearer optics of the Black Diamonds; but I changed plans in midstream and went Nightforce for more clarity and the simpler NP-R2 reticle.

 

[Father Knows Best]

What's the advantage of a Black Diamond over a Signature Select? Keep in mind that I'm not competing with this scope, and won't be shooting it at ranges greater than 600 yards.

 

[Greywolf]

Good points - thanks.

I got to wondering again about the magnification. Do I really need more than 16x out of a scope? I am going to be shooting at paper targets out to 1000 yards, but mostly in warm-hot weather during daylight hours, mostly under bright sun.

If having more than 16x is going to hurt due to mirage, etc. then it doesn't make much sense, does it, to have more than 16x, right?

Still, why do people get 32x scopes if the above problems occur?

 

[dakotasin]

because there are occasions when that magnification can be used.
because some long range shooters want the mirage to help w/ wind readings...

when conditions permit, i turn my scopes up to 22-24 or so. when not, i turn them down until the amount of mirage is tolerable. also note that even 8x or 9x scopes will show plenty of mirage under bad conditions - especially if you are shooting prone.

 

[redneck2]

Very early in the morning, cooler temps the higher magnification is fine

on a sunny 85 degree day, if you set the scope at 32x it'll be like trying to look through a wavy lake

do the math...if you've got 20x and you're at 1,000 yards, the sight picture is the same (supposedly) as zero magnification at 50 yards. If you can get a sight picture at 50 yards, 20x is all you need.

Suppose you have a 2x7 scope you can try out (just look thru it, don't need to mount on your rifle). Set your target at 100 yards. Should be about the same as 20x at 1,000

 

[greg531mi]

Look though them all, buy Zeiss!!!!

 

[moredes]

I have a "system" that suits me now. I use a 20x60 spotting scope for resolving bullet holes, and all my scopes are of the same magnification and reticle. I prefer as much magnification as I can get out of the scope for 'shortrange' targets (inside 300yd), but beyond that distance, most times with a fierce mirage even the spotting scope is "iffy" resolving .30 cal holes. On those days, riflescope magnification beyond ~15x isn't of much value; mirage can be acquired and the target is easily 'distinguishable' in the 10-15x range, and I find the visual combination of mirage and target offered by up to 15x enough to gauge wind and still maintain a well-focussed, tight, target.

Before I could afford a good spotting scope, I used riflescopes with as much variable magnification as I could afford, thinking the false economy of "more magnification" served me well. In those times, I used an 8-32x or 8-25x scope, and that worked well for the shortrange (<300yd) stuff. At long distances, some folks twirl knobs a lot on the firing line to gauge wind with the mirage, then focus down to acquire the target. I stick with my 'system'--it's just less for me to hassle with, especially under timed fire.

I'm in Mississippi; the humidity in the summertime even in the early morning is usually quite high, and there've been days when 600yd at 5-6x is all I can use and still make out the target as a circular black target. When I lived in California, I never had to come down below 10-12x at 600yd, even in 90* weather--the mirage generated by the low humidity there just wasn't as problematic.

I'm not up enough on the Burris line to discuss the differences between the Signature and Black Diamond models. My only experience was with BD's and Leupold Vari-X III's.