Screen Actors Guild Safety Bulletins - RE: Firearms

Whom do you believe engages in that practice, and under what circumstances?
We just watched a documentary last night on the band "Lynard Skynard". Some of the video clips around the release of "Saturday Night Special" showed the members horsing around and drinking while pointing various (obviously real) guns at each other at point blank range. I lost what little respect I had for the band at that point, and turned the movie off.
 
Having worked in organizations with written procedures, they work as long as the procedures are kept up to date, and management distributes them, follows them, explains them, and enforces them.

And this is the second edge of the sword with Alec Baldwin. First, he screwed up as an actor. Second, he screwed up worse as the Producer. He did not ‘set the stage’ for safety, and the results were fatal.
 
Most of the rabid anti-gunners I know are totally ignorant of basic gun safety practices. I think that actors get cocky when continuously using prop guns and think they are above practical rules. Early on some of the crew said that they were using real rounds to target shoot with the pistol in question after hours while filming. Those comments disappeared quickly when the law enforcement investigation was announced and suddenly nobody knew where any live ammo came from. The armorer is at fault as much as Baldwin even though Baldwin was definitely negligent and probably stupid.
 
I think they get way to comfortable pointing real guns at people or in their direction and pulling the trigger.

I remember when this first happened there was a Hollywood armor who did YouTube video on this, if I can find it I'll post it.

But he said that the policy now (and this supposedly predates Rust) is they don't actually point the gun in another actor they make it look like they did with camera angles.

I had an acquaintance who was the producer on cop show many many years ago and at least on his set, the rule was unless the scene called for the gun to be fired it wasn't a real gun to begin with.

If a real gun was to be used in the scene everybody involved in the scene examine the gun. The armor got it out of lockup and brought it to the scene and the armor inspected it and showed that it was clear, handed it to the person who was going to be holding it to inspected it and verified that it was clear. The person who was holding it handed it to the person who was going to have it pointed at them and they inspected it and verified that it was clear. Then the gun was dry fired to ensure that there was not a round in the chamber.

In the very first episode there's a scene where a kid is pointing a BHP at a cop and you can see that the hammer is down.

I mentioned it to the producer and he was amazed that anybody would notice something like that.

That let to the discussion about the safety protocols on his set and he finished up by saying that when the gun was dry fired nobody thought to re-cock the Hammer.
 
Alec probably anti gun doesnt know jack about guns,relies on someone who is supposed to do their job.Who obviously did not or made a mistake.With jobs come responsibilities.
 
I think that actors get cocky when continuously using prop guns and think they are above practical rules.
Possibly. Clearly, the members of the production team have to be strict about enforcing the rules, but one suspects that the more established the actor -- particularly when the lead actor is the producer -- can get away with flouting these rules.

In the very first episode there's a scene where a kid is pointing a BHP at a cop and you can see that the hammer is down.
That is absolutely one of the most common firearms errors (hammer down firing with SA pistols) in movies and television. I am no longer allowed to pause whatever we're watching to point this out to the wife. Other nagging production errors are the added sound of Glocks being cocked, pistols racked by military or law enforcement prior after being drawn when these people would, of course, be carrying with a round chambered, pistol shots being fired and in the same continuous scene, the hammer is down without the pistol having been decocked. Oh, and how about a character firing shots, action continues, no reloading, but character again racks the slide of the pistol to re-engage?

Can we conclude that all this excessive, thoroughly unnecessary firearms manipulation in these shows and movies actually increases the possibility of bad things happening? Because it almost appears that this is how the industry is training actors to use guns in scenes involving shooting.

One can see noticeable differences in how firearms are depicted from show to show, or movie to movie. When you have, for example, several former SEALs and SF guys as technical advisers, production assistants, armorers and even cast members -- CBS/Paramount show SEAL Team -- it's clear there's a huge safety emphasis during filming. Some of the cheesier shows (anyone ever watch the CW Network? Just say no.) like the reboot of Walker Texas Ranger are pretty much unwatchable because of the amateurish way firearms are depicted (well, that and the heinous acting).
 
That is absolutely one of the most common firearms errors (hammer down firing with SA pistols) in movies and television.

Well, if what guy told me is industry standard that last dry fire and people not thinking to cock the hammer would account for that would account for that.

Anyone ever watch the CW Network?

Penn & Teller: Fool Us is about it
 
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It is just a piece of paper, and no piece of paper is stronger than the pulp it is printed on.

No, its not "just a piece of paper," its an official document - a statement of policy - that will be part of Baldwin's undoing.

"Knew or should have known," remember?
 
I'm just wondering where it said in the script to point the gun (blanks or not) at the cameraperson and pull the trigger... .
Oh come on . . .

There are many scenes in many movies where a gun is pointed at the camera, and often discharged.



In movies they do many things that are really dangerous, explosions, car wrecks, cars driving through crowded malls (insert Blue Blues theme here), and destroying buildings, things that normal people just don't do because they are dangerous. Pointing guns at one another, and sometime snapping a blank is just another dangerous thing done in the creation of a movie. And as long as there are safety protocols, and they are followed, everything is good and everyone goes home at the end of the day.
 
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I'm just wondering where it said in the script to point the gun (blanks or not) at the cameraperson and pull the trigger... .

The crazy thing is weren't even filming. He was just practicing his draw. His recollection is that the trigger wasn't even pulled.

As the document states and is one of the core principals of firearms safety you should never point a gun at something you aren't willing to destroy. When dry firing I verify the gun is empty and even then first couple shots are into a stack of magazines I have in the basement, after that I use a point on the wall across the room. In order for someone to be shot on set many levels of incompetence and multiple people doing something wrong have to happen.
 
Oh come on . . .

There are many scenes in many movies where a gun is pointed at the camera, and often discharged.



In movies they do many things that are really dangerous, explosions, car wrecks, cars driving through crowded malls (insert Blue Blues theme here), and destroying buildings, things that normal people just don't do because they are dangerous. Pointing guns at one another, and sometime snapping a blank is just another dangerous thing done in the creation of a movie. And as long as there are safety protocols, and they are followed, everything is good and everyone goes home at the end of the day.


You haven't been paying attention, have you?
 
The armorer on this production has, according to IMDb, all of three prior credits, one as an assistant costume designer, one as an assistant to Mr Reed (the Armorer her father), and one as Head Armorer. That's a pretty thin resume.

But, it gets worse.

During the filming of the movie "The Old Way", her only other armorer gig, the assistant director and Nicolas Cage, the star, complained of a number of unsafe activities.
 
The crazy thing is weren't even filming. He was just practicing his draw. His recollection is that the trigger wasn't even pulled.
This was the damning statement Baldwin made right after the incident. I think his statements, although he believes them to absolve him of any responsibility, are going to be what get him convicted.

And then later adamantly stated he had not pulled the trigger Yet the subsequent testing of the gun by the law enforcement forensics team definitively proved that the only way the revolver would fire a projectile is if the trigger is pulled on a cocked hammer.
 
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