You guys ever heard of this or used this method?
http://http://wvgazette.com/Outdoors/201301190119
http://http://wvgazette.com/Outdoors/201301190119
Season a Barrel
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Loyalist Dave
Member
Yep it's balderdash.
There are no "pores" in barrel steel in modern muzzleloading barrels. Check out this link from the Traditional Muzzleloading Forum for details: Why We Don't Season Barrels Anymore by Paul Vallandigham.
I would serously like to see him shoot 100 consecutive shots from his barrel and load #100 as easily as his first round, simply because he treated his barrel with some heat and some beeswax and lard (bore butter).
LD
There are no "pores" in barrel steel in modern muzzleloading barrels. Check out this link from the Traditional Muzzleloading Forum for details: Why We Don't Season Barrels Anymore by Paul Vallandigham.
I would serously like to see him shoot 100 consecutive shots from his barrel and load #100 as easily as his first round, simply because he treated his barrel with some heat and some beeswax and lard (bore butter).
LD
BADUNAME30
Member
I have been keeping my T/C Bbls seasoned for as long as i can remember and i gaurantee you that i not only get FAR MORE easy loading and shots than with an unseasoned one, but they clean up far easier also.
I use Bore Butter. I can't recall the number of consecutive shots last fired with my .50, but this past early fall i fired 28 consecutive, easy to load as the first,shots with a newly aquired and newly seasoned .45 T/C.
I'd stand neck in neck with anyone and do a same load comparison any time and confidently know i'm gonna get many more easy to load shots that you with your unseasoned Bbl.
And that's the truth
I use Bore Butter. I can't recall the number of consecutive shots last fired with my .50, but this past early fall i fired 28 consecutive, easy to load as the first,shots with a newly aquired and newly seasoned .45 T/C.
I'd stand neck in neck with anyone and do a same load comparison any time and confidently know i'm gonna get many more easy to load shots that you with your unseasoned Bbl.
And that's the truth
BSA1
member
Ditto with Jim, West PA comments,
Seasoning the bore is a key step in the care and feeding of your muzzleloader.
The best comparsion is this;
Compare a well used cast iron skillet from your wife's kitchen to a brand new one. Notice how much smoother the cooking surface inside the used skillet is compared to the new one. Ask your wife how much easier the used skillet cleans up. The grease cooks into the pores of the metal over time and seals it. I don't know where pards are getting the idea modern steel doesn't have pores in it.
This is the exact same thing that is going on inside the bore of your frontstuffer and why you should avoid all modern cleaning solutions/chemicals. A seasoned bore cleaned with plain water maybe with a dab of dish soap followed by Ballistol will not only not rust but as more rounds are fired over time will be rust resistant and easier to clean.
p.s. I belong to a muzzleloading club and all the members season the bores of their frontstuffers.
Seasoning the bore is a key step in the care and feeding of your muzzleloader.
The best comparsion is this;
Compare a well used cast iron skillet from your wife's kitchen to a brand new one. Notice how much smoother the cooking surface inside the used skillet is compared to the new one. Ask your wife how much easier the used skillet cleans up. The grease cooks into the pores of the metal over time and seals it. I don't know where pards are getting the idea modern steel doesn't have pores in it.
This is the exact same thing that is going on inside the bore of your frontstuffer and why you should avoid all modern cleaning solutions/chemicals. A seasoned bore cleaned with plain water maybe with a dab of dish soap followed by Ballistol will not only not rust but as more rounds are fired over time will be rust resistant and easier to clean.
p.s. I belong to a muzzleloading club and all the members season the bores of their frontstuffers.
[email protected]
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My muzzleloading barrels are not made from cast iron. All of this is just
A bunch of hooey.
A bunch of hooey.
BSA1
member
Baloney...Steel is porous. Look at it under a powerful microscope. In fact it has a lot of imperfections.
In addition look at the lands and grooves in the barrel. If you have reasonably good vison you can easily see tool marks inside the barrel from when the bore being cut. A common question has to do with lapping the barrel to rid it of the tool marks. Pores are more easily visible with the naked eye on castings used making parts for firearms (Ruger frames for example.
Seasoning not only fills in small pores that may not be seen with the naked eye but it helps with covering the imperfections from when the lands and grooves were cut.
In addition look at the lands and grooves in the barrel. If you have reasonably good vison you can easily see tool marks inside the barrel from when the bore being cut. A common question has to do with lapping the barrel to rid it of the tool marks. Pores are more easily visible with the naked eye on castings used making parts for firearms (Ruger frames for example.
Seasoning not only fills in small pores that may not be seen with the naked eye but it helps with covering the imperfections from when the lands and grooves were cut.
BADUNAME30
Member
This is one o' them tweechisown things i 'spect.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
We had a similar discussion over at CAS City just a few weeks ago. I don't shoot muzzle loaders but I shoot Black Powder in cartridge revolvers, lever guns, and shotguns all the time. Old guns from the 1880s right up to modern Stainless guns. Nice shiny modern bores as well as old pitted bores.
I don't know much about 'seasoning', but I can categorically state that once they have gone through the firing and cleaning cycle a few times with my favorite water based cleaning solution and lubricating the bore with Ballistol, they are easier to clean and require less elbow grease to get clean then the first time they were fired with Black Powder. Whether or not you call it 'seasoning', whether or not there are micro pores in the steel, they clean up quicker and easier after having gone through the firing and cleaning cycle a few times.
We had a similar discussion over at CAS City just a few weeks ago. I don't shoot muzzle loaders but I shoot Black Powder in cartridge revolvers, lever guns, and shotguns all the time. Old guns from the 1880s right up to modern Stainless guns. Nice shiny modern bores as well as old pitted bores.
I don't know much about 'seasoning', but I can categorically state that once they have gone through the firing and cleaning cycle a few times with my favorite water based cleaning solution and lubricating the bore with Ballistol, they are easier to clean and require less elbow grease to get clean then the first time they were fired with Black Powder. Whether or not you call it 'seasoning', whether or not there are micro pores in the steel, they clean up quicker and easier after having gone through the firing and cleaning cycle a few times.
splattergun
Member
I don't know about seasoning a modern steel ML barrel, but I do have a nice, expensive steel griddle which proudly proclaimed "no seasoning required". I washed the griddle according to mfr directions and went to cook with it. Everything I cooked stuck to the new griddle like glue to paper. In frustration, I seasoned it the old fashioned way, I baked on some no-salt lard at high heat until black. That griddle is now non-stick and a joy to use.
FWIW, I think it won't hurt to season your barrel the way the old timers did. Might help.
FWIW, I think it won't hurt to season your barrel the way the old timers did. Might help.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy Again
The comparison to frying pans and rifle barrels really does not hold much water, pardon the pun.
Frying pans are usually made of cast iron. When iron was used for rifle barrels, it was wrought iron or malleable iron. Very different. Cast iron is full of impurities. That's why it is so brittle. Strong in compression but not very good in tension, which is what a gun barrel needs. Cast iron cannot be forged into a rifle barrel, too many impurities. Wrought or malleable iron can be forged because the impurities have been driven out of the iron. Much stronger in tension. Colt was still using malleable iron for frames and cylinders as late as the early versions of the SAA in 1873.
Wrought iron or malleable iron is not as porous as the cast iron of a frying pan.
The comparison to frying pans and rifle barrels really does not hold much water, pardon the pun.
Frying pans are usually made of cast iron. When iron was used for rifle barrels, it was wrought iron or malleable iron. Very different. Cast iron is full of impurities. That's why it is so brittle. Strong in compression but not very good in tension, which is what a gun barrel needs. Cast iron cannot be forged into a rifle barrel, too many impurities. Wrought or malleable iron can be forged because the impurities have been driven out of the iron. Much stronger in tension. Colt was still using malleable iron for frames and cylinders as late as the early versions of the SAA in 1873.
Wrought iron or malleable iron is not as porous as the cast iron of a frying pan.
frontiergander
Member
if you want something that truly helps a muzzy bore to stay clean and load easier after multiple shots, Dynatek Bore Coat. THAT stuff is awesome!
xXxplosive
Member
Nonsense.........just shoot it and clean it well.....the gun will do the rest.
BADUNAME30
Member
Actualy, truth be told even, i don't actualy "season" my Bbls.
I just treat them with bore butter.I keep a coat of BB in my Bbls at all times and i lube my patches with it.
As for cleaning. I use only a few inches of HOT water in the sink with a couple drops o' Dawn. I dry the bore and imediately re-treat with BB while still hot.
Don't think this is technicaly 'seasoning', but it sure works as i stated above.
Without that BB applied to the hot bore..things go much different.
As for the pore issue..no such thing as non pourouse steel.
I just treat them with bore butter.I keep a coat of BB in my Bbls at all times and i lube my patches with it.
As for cleaning. I use only a few inches of HOT water in the sink with a couple drops o' Dawn. I dry the bore and imediately re-treat with BB while still hot.
Don't think this is technicaly 'seasoning', but it sure works as i stated above.
Without that BB applied to the hot bore..things go much different.
As for the pore issue..no such thing as non pourouse steel.
loose noose
Member
Once again I agree with Jim, except for using a bit of dish detergent and hot water; I use nothing but Murphy's Soap Oil, hydrogen peroxide, and rubbing alcohol to get my bores clean (equal parts), and swab the bore with Bore Butter, no muss no fuss. I can get about 10 to 15 shots. Also I used a valve grinding compound to smooth out the lands and grooves prior to shooting the weapon. Believe me these are the easiest arms to clean. Further after doing a lot of bluing and browning of firearms, I can tell ya for certain that gun steel definitely has pores.
Ifishsum
Member
Like Jim, my experience has been that after a barrel is cleaned and "buttered" a few times it subsequently becomes easier and quicker to clean up. I can usually shoot our club course (25 shots or so) without stopping to clean. Never had a hint of rust in that barrel either. It does seem a bit like seasoning on an iron pan, because there is a residual coating in there that I can remove with overly aggressive cleaning - I believe it is beneficial and leave it.
frontiergander
Member
bore coat vs nothing
Cosmoline
Member
Operative words. I've seen very detailed analysis of modern steel from metallurgists. There are no pores to be filled with bore butter. Nor do you need to limit your cleaning as you do with cast iron. In cleaning the problem is using petro-based smokeless cleaners that interact badly with black powder residue.
However, the use of a light BP friendly lube before shooting will almost certainly make cleanup easier. The reason is simply that the fouling adheres to the layer of grease which can then be removed, instead of adhering much more stubbornly to dry steel. The analogy is not to a cast iron pan but to frying eggs in a steel pan with or without cooking oil. And in fact the same oils you use for cooking can work great for BP. My mix is beeswax and EVOO. But the oil isn't "soaking in" to the steel. Not unless something has gone horribly wrong ;-)
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Couldn't figure out what you were referring to, but as to "seasoning" a barrel, in my opinion, it aint a dinner dish. New barrels probably have all kinds of imperfections from the barrel making process itself. Cut rifling is shaving metal from the bore, hammer forging is beatin the beegeesus from the metal, and then there is button rifling.... Centurion told me to think constipated here... lots of stress and imperfection remaining before stress relieving the barrels....
Shooting, and though I'm not advocating this, or lapping the barrel and yer going to have to choose your poison there too, will generally smooth out the barrel in due time. Fire lapping or just plain lapping take the place of bullets through the barrel. This works itself out naturally in my opinion, and if you can slide a cotton pad your wife might use to do the stuffs they do with their face at night, and it doesn't "catch", you're already on your way to a useful barrel.
As for cleaning, I use alcohol and murphy's soap followed up with now a marvel oil patch wiped dry and then protected with lucas gun oil... something I've found to be the very best protectant in our humid environs....
Aloha..
BADUNAME30
Member
Hey Rattuss, do ya git to shoot pigs with yer stuffer over there ?
I do .... in fact its only muzzleloaders that I've hunted with since about '88 or '89. My biggest pig was one I shot on a roadway from about 15 yards with my 58 and a 530 grain Lyman minie over 80 grains of pyrodex P powder. It was the only animal I've not had a pass through... the bullet stopped on the off side under the skin...
I hunt more for deer than pigs nowadays, but I do get after sheep quite a bit with my bow.
Much Aloha...
1911 guy
Member
The biggest issue I have seen with muzzleloaders regarding cleaning and ease of loading is to avoid petroleum products like the plague when cleaning and loading. They tend to make a real mess when mixed with black powder residue. Hot water to clean and a good lube (I also prefer Bore Butter) when shooting or storing. No oil.
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