Seasoned hand loader having problems

[gamestalker]

I'm still trying to work up a load for a 9mm my Son recently bought. As I stated in my earlier post I was working with 115 gr. Gold Dots and 115 gr. XTPs. My loads with the G.D.s is right where I wanted it, COAL 1.125", 1200 fps with 5.9 grains of Longshot, no problem there.
But the XTP won't let me get it beyond 1050 fps without problems. At 5.8 grains of Longshot the XTPs are already looking max., primers very flat looking, top hats. The brass has the beginnings of fracturing above the head. This is once fired brass of 3 different headstamps, Federal, Winchester, and Remington. I even did a soft seat so I could get it as shallow as possible with little difference if any. As a matter of fact, the original COAL I started with was 1.095" and the to lands COAL is 1.115". A 1.110" COAL isn't really showing a noticable difference regarding pressure signs, and velocity didn't show much change except it was slightly more consistent with a +/- variance of under 10 fps 10 round average. Now that I am up against the wall with powder and COAL, I'm thinking of changing powders. Any suggestions would be appreciated as I haven't loaded for the 9mm in at least 25 years, but I didn't have these problems back then. FYI, I am tryng to achieve at least 1200 fps with the 115 grain XTP HP. I'll go with any powder that will get it done so long as I'm not at pressures I'm seeing at present. What about Blue Dot or HS6 ? Anyone know if those are good potential high velocity 9mm powders?

 

[1SOW]

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp :Shows HS6 with lower pressures at 1203

http://www.eabco.com/VihtaVuori01.pdf Vit n340 thru 350 all show => 1200'/sec with XTP's

Vit is pricey; but a great powder I've had good luck with in 9mm

 

[Seedtick]

I like to run Power Pistol in my 9mm's.
I flip-flop back and forth between it and HP38 as my favorite. Either will do a fine job.

Seedtick

 

[918v]

First, why are you trying to achieve 1200 FPS?

Second, the XTP has .050" less jump to the lands than the GD, hence the higher pressure.

It is well known that the longer the freebore, the lower the pressure. That's how Weatherby gets the velocity: long freebore + more powder.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I usually load a 124/125gr bullet for the 9mm and have had great results using Longshot. BUT, Longshot will develop high pressures and even spike pressures up near the top end. You are correct in thinking HS-6 will deliver more velocity with less pressure. Of the two I feel HS-6 will give you what you're looking for. I don't think you can safely get there with Longshot. I suggest using a Magnum primer with HS-6.

Alliant's load data site lists Unique as the powder that will deliver the highest velocity with a 115gr bullet, even higher than Power Pistol. I still think HS-6 is the way to go.

 

[gamestalker]

I'm really grateful for the help guys. And for the fellow who asked my why I'm trying to get 1200 fps, I can only answer why not. I understand your style of hand loading and won't even attempt to knock or belittle your desired results, to each his own. I like high velocity, or rather achieving the potential of a cartridge. Others here are aware of that certain something about hand loading that pushes us to go for the gusto, while still remaining safe. I've always loaded to the potential of a given cartridge, and have never once had a problem that progressed beyond the initial work up stage. I'm careful and watch as I go up, and it's because of these safety measures one can achieve maximum potential without a regretful out come. And another very helpful element when working up is to ask questions from others who may have already been down that particular cartridge road, so to speak. The second I start thinking that my 25 plus years experience makes me an expert or other wise an authority in all applications, is the moment I'm in troubled waters. Our learning process ends when we take our last nreath of life, and there is always someone else who knows something we don't.
HS6 is going to be my ticket I'll bet. I like the data on it I'm seeing in my books. Once again guys, thanks!

 

[gamestalker]

That less free bore with the XTP is exactly why I'm dealing with pressure issues not experienced with the G.D. which is why I'm asking around if there is a way to get what I want from the XTP with a different powder.

 

[ljnowell]

My 9mm loading is limited, but with 115fmj and some plated I have found that Power Pistol works great.

 

[918v]

I think Power Pistol will get you to 1200 FPS the most safely.

 

[jeepmor]

Another vote for Power Pistol.

I heed caution on double base powders like PP and Bullseye simply because they can typically double charge a case and still not overfill and spill powder indicating you goofed. Unlike most single base powders which will spill on a double charge. I'm extra mindful with these types of powders and have used pounds and pounds of them. They are a great value due to their high energy per grain, you'll get a lot of 9mm out of a pound.

I also found I cannot leave them in my powder thrower overnight or they start to stick to the plastic and require a cleaning.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

According to Alliant, Power Pistol won't get him there within SAAMI pressure limits.

 

[918v]

According to Clark, Power Pistol will not explode a 9mm no matter how much you stuff in the case.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

According to Clark, Power Pistol will not explode a 9mm no matter how much you stuff in the case.

Really!! I would like to watch him demonstrate that one!

 

[GLOOB]

Here ya go:

50% overcharge: 10.5 grains Bullseye, 125 gr cast bullet. Oh, yeah. With an bore obstruction, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbvvurXmAmg

You probably can't even fit a 50% overcharge of Power Pistol without packing it in.

 

[cheygriz]

I've been loading 9MM for quite a few years now. 10K to 12K per year.

IME, HS-6, and/or Power Pistol seem to beat out all other powders I've tried with every bullet I've tried.

(I've never tried the super expensive VN powders, so I can't comment on them)

 

[918v]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbvvurXmAmg

"Haha, you got some crap all over you..."

LOL

But seriously, if you can't blow up a HiPoint with a 50% overcharge of Bullseye on top of a bore obstruction, what makes you think you can't reach 1200 FPS safely using Power pistol?

Even if you exceed SAAMI max pressures, it prolly won't be enough to reach +P and will definitely be less than +P+.

 

[BigBob3006]

gamestalker,

All the info I will post is from Lyman's 48th Edition of their Reloading Handbook. Lyman usually gives information on several different make of bullets. It just so happens the 115gr bullet is the Hornady HP-XTP. I use W-231 for most of my handgun loads, so I'll start with it. (Opinion.) W-231 is a clean burning powder. I use it in a Dillon 505 press and it meters just fine.
Powder.......Start....Pressure CUP...Velocity...Max.....Pressure CUP...Velocity..
W-231........3.5.......20,700...........959 fps....4.9......32,100............1253 fps
Unique........4.4......20,600...........996 fps....5.8.......30,700............1233 fps
Powder Pistol..5.9...27,100...........1102 fps...6.5......31,500...........1212 fps
OAL......1.090"..........S.D......130.........BC...........129..............................
These three loads are the only powders that give a max velocity over 1200 fps. It has been my experience that W-231 is the cleanest burning powder of the three. I hope that this is of some help.