Seat and Crimp or just seat? .223

[TheDomFather]

Folks,
I am new to reloading rifle but have been reloading pistol for some time. I have a set of redding dies which have the micrometer seating stem but can also taper crimp the case. I see that either folks dont crimp or use a seperate die for crimping. Any thoughts, ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Dom

 

[murf]

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/223-crimp-or-no-crimp.801976/

murf

 

[Reloadron]

Per murf's link which is a good read I feel it pretty much comes down to doing what works for you in your rifle(s). Personally I just rely on neck tension or bullet hold simply because that works well for me. I have used both standard RCBS seating dies as well as their custom seating dies with good results and never saw a need to use anything beyond what I currently am doing. I also do have a Lee FCD (Factory Crimp Die) and while many swear by it I never really saw any improvement but again, that is just me. So again, in the final wash see what works for you in your rifle(s) and run with it.

Ron

 

[mdi]

For me (and a bunch of others) I do not crimp for bolt or single shot guns. I lightly crimp my Garand ammo and my 7.62x39 ammo, but my last test (fire one, eject next fed round and measure, 4 or 5 times) I got no setbacks ...

 

[Axis II]

I'm the OP in the link and because of that link I don't use one. I get pretty good accuracy too. I have had one case that the bullet felt a little loose when seating and it got the plier treatment and into the scrap bucket.

 

[Blue68f100]

The only rifle rings that need crimping is tubular magazine feed guns. I don't crimp any of my rifle rounds. I have done testing to see which is more accurate. The non crimp always won out for me. I have the same set of Redding dies. Really like the micrometer seating stem. It's really nice when you start tweaking your OAL to fine tune your loads.

 

[MutinousDoug]

I don't crimp anything other than revolver rounds. If your cartridge headspaces on the rim, then crimping is appropriate. (If I loaded the magazine to hunt with my 30-30, I'd crimp the bullets.)
If I'm shooting lead bullets and I've flared ("belled") the case neck then I remove the flare with the seating die and try to do nothing more. Most of my .45ACP reloads are lead SWC and I have to remove the case flare but don't crimp because the round headspaces on the case mouth.
My .223 rounds are loaded with boattail jacketed rounds. I don't flare the case so there is no flare to remove; same with Garand loads and bolt gun loads

 

[Bartojc]

I do crimp with the Lee FCD for my AR. It seems to makes sense to do so, and I get satisfactory accuracy. On my other rifle rounds I've done both, but have landed on no crimp.

-Jeff

 

[JimKirk]

I don't crimp .223 ammo ... never had any problems caused by the lack of crimp ... but I do have good neck tension ....

If I owned a taper crimp die such as the one you have .... I most likely would put a light crimp just enough to smooth out any edges around the brass mouth ... not for crimp but to smooth out the brass.

 

[Bart B.]

Competitive shooters using AR platforms for 223 ammo winning an setting records in rapid fire matches don't crimp in any bullets. Even M1 and M14 rifles with heavier bullets in case necks traveling faster when slammed into battery while uncrimped in case necks don't have problems.

Sierra tests all their cannelured bullets without crimps to get best accuracy for quality control purposes. The best commercial and arsenal centerfire match ammo doesn't have crimped in bullets.

 

[hdwhit]

For .223 Remington, my practice is to lightly crimp IF the bullet has a cannelure and to not crimp if it does not.

Neck tension will generally be sufficient to hold the bullet in place through all but the most abusive handling

 

[Ironicaintit]

when I first started rolling my own rifle rounds, I crimped everything because that's what id seen done. but the more I did it, and the more I used them, the more I realized that it may be actually detrimental to accuracy, and really wasn't needed.
If my bullets have a cannulure, ill give them a light squeeze still.

 

[spitballer]

I've never crimped for my bolt rifle, but for an autoloader designed for rough use I'd be inclined to use one.

 

[Schwing]

Crimping does absolutely nothing for neck tension. In fact, too much crimp substantially reduces neck tension. Even in revolver rounds it doesn't, technically, increase neck tension. If a proper roll crimp is applied, it prevents the bullet from moving forward until enough pressure is generated inside the case to essentially unroll the crimp and release the bullet. It also helps prevent bullet setback in tube fed rifles. IMHO, there are very few rounds that benefit in accuracy with crimping and all of them are revolver rounds.

For .223, if you don't have proper neck tension, there are other issues at play that need to be looked at. There are, however, reasons to apply a light taper crimp but they apply more to reliability when dealing with semi-autos and not so much for accuracy. Once again, IMHO, if it doesn't head-space on the case mouth, even reliability is a non-issue.

 

[Kaldor]

Lee FCD for almost everything, in every rifle caliber here.

Why? Because I always put a slight flare on almost everything I load with an M-die.
How much? AR blammo ammo? I crimp the cannelure lightly, you can just see the mark on the case neck. Accuracy loads? Just a kiss to take out the minor flare, but not enough to crimp into the bullet. For the ones I dont crimp, I dont use the M-die, and rely solely on neck tension.

I would not use a taper crimp on rifle ammo unless you know that your trim length is exactly the same on every case as the taper crimp is dependent on trim length to get a consistent crimp.

 

[Bart B.]

Unless we're all using the same objectives, conditions and standards for tests, a fair comparison is not gonna happen.

 

[JimKirk]

I would not use a taper crimp on rifle ammo unless you know that your trim length is exactly the same on every case as the taper crimp is dependent on trim length to get a consistent crimp

That would be a good reason to trim often ... Especially if a reloader was planning to use a taper crimp die .... I don't own one and at this point don't plan to purchase one ... as I have no need for one ... But you never know ... one may stumble along in a trade or deal ....

 

[Kaldor]

That would be a good reason to trim often ... Especially if a reloader was planning to use a taper crimp die .... I don't own one and at this point don't plan to purchase one ... as I have no need for one ... But you never know ... one may stumble along in a trade or deal ....

I trim every firing with a WTF2. Takes less time to do that post sizing than it does to measure or gauge a case.

I still think the FCD is a better option than a taper crimp as the potential for cutting into a thin jacketed bullet is real with a taper crimp.

 

[Varminterror]

Life really is simpler than all this...

If an application needs a crimp, then crimp. If it doesn't, then don't.

If ultimate reliability with low attention to detail ammo trumps precision in an autoloader for your application, then crimp. If you're shooting a 500grn solids after the Black Death, crimp. If you're loading for a tube-loading levergun, crimp. If you're loading for a high recoiling revolver, crimp. If you're shooting for itty bitty groups, then don't.

 

[Paladin7]

There are a lot of folks here who don't crimp their rifle bullets. I am not one of them.

When loading for a bolt gun for bench rest target applications, you can do without the crimp, but you are leaving yourself open for issues with bullet set back if you are not single loading a cartridge in the chamber. For example, on a bolt gun, if you load the magazine and use the bolt to load each cartridge from the magazine into the chamber you need to be careful you are not setting bullets back when/if the bullet hits the feed ramp. For hunting applications I always crimp my bullets period, as per my load manual instructions.

For a semi-automatic rifle the crimp is necessary to prevent bullet set back, and all reloading manuals I have recommend you crimp the bullet to avoid this problem.

For single shot rifles, you can go without the crimp.

Bottom line, for me, I always crimp my bullets... Why take a chance with bullet set back?

YMMV...

 

[Bart B.]

Bolt guns and semiautos shooting best scores and smallest test groups in rapid and slow fire events never use ammo with crimped case mouths into or onto bullets.

They use the same reasoning benchrest folks do. Adjust bullet pull force to minimum required for ammo handling, loading and firing. Done so with sizing die neck diameters right for bullet diameters and case neck wall thickness. For rapid fire, 10 to 20 pounds is good for 30 caliber bullets; 5 to 10 for 22's.

 

[someguy2800]

If you getting bullet setback with anything except a lever action then you need to look at your neck tension.