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Seattle Mayor Plans Concealed-Weapons Ban

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by rainbowbob, Jun 8, 2008.

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  1. rainbowbob

    rainbowbob Member

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    The following article was published in The Seattle Times today regarding our goofy, bobble-headed Mayor's reponse to the shooting incident at the Seattle Folklife Festival last month.

    What follows is my letter to the Times:

     
  2. catfish101

    catfish101 Member

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    You sent a good letter.

    The mayor is an idiot.
     
  3. ClickClickD'oh

    ClickClickD'oh Member

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    Wait... the mayor wants to get a law passed that would essentially echo the already in place law?

    Shockingly typical.

    I know, how about instead of passing another silly law, why don't the have an investigation to find out why the law currently in place wasn't followed.

    A history of drugs and schiz? Why not find out why he was given a carry permit and why he was allowed to be sold a firearm?

    Oh yeah, then they would have to admit that this happened because the government screwed up and put citizens in danger. Can't have that can we.
     
  4. LWGN

    LWGN Member

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    The Mayor wants to do something? How about insisting that the Snohomish County Sheriff's Office comply with state and federal law by not issuing permits to people who are schizophrenic? Law-abiding citizens have to give up their rights because you can't trust the local law enforcement agency to do their jobs?

    This is ridiculous.
     
  5. Brass Rain

    Brass Rain Member

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    What a surprise, a politician throwing up the first emotion-based answer that comes to mind regardless of efficiency. I don't know whether to blame this moron or the ones that elected him.
     
  6. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    From what I've read elsewhere about Seattle, maybe Hanoi Jane (Fonda) could get elected as mayor. She might have become Hillary's Secretary of State.

    That area, as with Berkeley, SF, Madison and some other areas, is out to lunch ('tits up'/dreaming), permanently.
     
  7. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    Can't the feds arrest the sheriff?
     
  8. Catherine

    Catherine member

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    Thanks for putting this up!

    We received a letter from a Seattle friend tonight about this very matter. We have several friends that live in WA state.

    Catherine
     
  9. coloradokevin

    coloradokevin Member

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    Another brilliant knee-jerk reaction.

    It sounds like an administrative screw-up was responsible for this guy's permit being issued in the first place, so arguments against issuing permits --within the bounds of the law-- are flawed if this is used as the case study... In essence, the idea of legally concealed weapons is not at fault here!

    Moreover, a single act of violence in 37 years is hardly a cause for concern on the part of the city. Overall, this sounds like a very safe festival!


    By the way, Rainbow, that was a very well written response!
     
  10. Mr White

    Mr White Member

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    Pretty good letter, but...
    Your opening sentence plays right into the Antis' hands. Innocent people weren't injured by the firearm. The firearm is just an object. They were injured by an evil,crazy, person with a firearm.

    Grainger committed the crime, not the gun. Without Grainger, the gun would have just been lying there. Without the gun, Grainger would have resorted to a knife or a hammer, or even a rock.
     
  11. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    A few criminals and crazy people commit crimes; therefore, government is entitled to punish everyone.

    Idi Amin would understand. I certainly don't.
     
  12. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    Wow, 1 incident in 37 years, probably thousands of festivals. I think that's something to applaud! You can probably attribute the reduced crime to those who carry concealed.

    Why tamper with something that works overall?
     
  13. MillCreek

    MillCreek Member

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    I have to speak up here in defense of the Snohomish sheriff's office. I would point out that they have been issuing my carry permit for about 20 years now. What some of the posters here may not realize, since it was given little attention by the media, is that Washington state law has some strict criteria governing the declination of a carry permit. The accused in this case had never, to my knowledge, been involuntarily committed for mental health treatment. This would have made him ineligible for a carry permit.

    http://www1.co.snohomish.wa.us/Departments/Sheriff/Information/concealed_weapons.htm is the website explaining the criteria for granting a permit in Washington state. You will note there are no grounds under RCW 9.41.040 for declining a permit based on drug abuse or schizophrenia, unless the applicant has been involuntarily committed for this or has been convicted of certain drug crimes. You might be able to make an argument that a CPL could be denied if the applicant was the subject of a forfeiture court order based upon being arrested while mentally incompetent while carrying a firearm. But as far as I have read in the media, that had not happened prior to the accused opening fire at the Folklife festival. He had some mental health and drug abuse issues, but I don't recall reading that he had ever been convicted or committed for a disqualifying offense.

    If my recall is poor, and there have been any media articles documenting that the accused in this case was ineligible for a CPL, with supporting facts, and the Snohomish sheriff issued one in error, I would like to see the articles.
     
  14. doc2rn

    doc2rn Member

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    If the man with a firearm was defending himself from an attacker I can see this being thrown squarely at the sherrif's feet. Especially if there where two armed deputies who watched the fight and did nothing until a shot rang out.
    Hey if it is good enough for Jon Q public to be tried in court I can see this rolling right into the sherrif's lap as his fault and being prosecuted for negligence.
     
  15. spwenger

    spwenger Member

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    As Already Pointed Out...

    People may be killed or injured with firearms, vehicles, etc., not by them. The prohibitionists love to play games with semantics and we need to be more careful of our grammar.
     
  16. revjen45

    revjen45 Member

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    We live in Everett, which is in the Seattle sphere of cultural/economic influence. Therefore I have some familiarity with a few luminaries of the Seattle political scene. Greg Nickels is card-carrying Lefty Imbecile of the ilk of Jim McDimwit (D-Peoples' Republic of Seattle). WA State has pre-emption and State law specifies where one may carry concealed with a permit. Gauleiter Nickels has nothing to say about it. He is just passing gas to appear that he is "doing something" about a non-existant problem. He does that a lot.
     
  17. MillCreek

    MillCreek Member

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    Actually, this incident occurred in the city of Seattle, under the jurisdiction of the Seattle Police Department. The issues related to the Snohomish County Sheriff do not pertain to the response to the actual assault, since it was members of the SPD who were present.
     
  18. Langenator

    Langenator Member

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    Can someone enlighten me as to which federal law regulates the qualification criteria for state-issued CPLs?

    And, as a previous poster noted, unless the shooter was involuntarily committed to a mental institution, or his drug issues included a felony conviction, nothing in the law prohibits him from having a CPL or purchasing a firearm.
     
  19. Bob R

    Bob R Member

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    There is a pretty good thread on the shooting that caused this statement by the mayor on OCDO. If you read into the thread, there is someone in it who works/ed at a gun shop that the shooter used to shop at. His post was pretty eye opening.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/11642.html

    As far as the mayor trying to ban concealed weapons at his festival, the only way he can do it is to change state law. I don't think that is going to happen.

    We have this nice law out here called "State Preemption". The bold I put in there so it won't be skimmed over.

    All in all, other than the stance on NFA weapons (and Seattle), WA is actually a fairly pro-gun state.

    bob
     
  20. rickomatic

    rickomatic Member

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    Just like his socialist brother Mayor Nutter of Philadelphia, the idea of preemption doesn't seem to bother our Mayor "Quimby". He relies on the willingness of the sheep here to back him on his restrictive ideas regardless of actual law.
    Other than the ubiquitous lefties inhabiting most of the elective offices in this state, it is a fairly good gun rights state. At least so far. The real schizophrenic here is the state of Washington. Maybe it's too much coffee..... :cuss:
     
  21. rainbowbob

    rainbowbob Member

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    Mr White and spwenger both make good points. I should have been more careful with my choice of words.

    Although the Seattle Times often prints my letters on other subjects - they have never printed a letter from me on the subject of firearms. I don't ecxpect them to print this one either. Come to think of it - I don't remember ever seeing any pro-2A letters in either daily.

    Perhaps they have another agenda?

    Millcreek is right about this. Unless a person has been involuntarily committed for more than 14 days - they are eligible for a CPL if they otherwise qualify.

    The courts have essentially three choices when making a commitment order - 14 days, 90 days, or 180 days. There is currently discussion about changing the CPL statutes to include the 14 day commitment as a disqualification for a CPL.

    And most of the local newspaper articles have not been at all accurate about that.

    Again..might it be that they have another agenda?
     
  22. Dain Bramage

    Dain Bramage Member

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    I agree with Mill Creek. The Snohomish County Deputy's office has been professional and courteous when issuing concealed pistol licenses. They were following the law, which is clear-cut and reasonable. Do you want a doctor turning you in every time you come in for counseling or have a medication prescribed?

    I've had sedatives prescribed to me for claustrophobia when flying to Hawaii for a family trip. I ended up not using any, but keeping it together in that hermetically sealed aluminum can was aided by knowing the medication was there. Do I need to be turned in?

    The papers have been very evasive about printing the cause of this incident. The other person involved in the fight, the one who got a gunpowder tattoo on his upper lip, has not been identified or charged.
     
  23. BigO01

    BigO01 Member

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    ?

    No perhaps about it , their agenda hasn't changed in decades and is always clear , make up whatever lies they have to in order to strip law abiding citizens of any and all means of resisting tyranny , not to prevent crime or protect anyone .

    Much like a Sheppard is the overseer of a flock of sheep so they wish to be with us . And while said Sheppard is upset when a predator kills one of his flock it isn't because of a true concern for the individual sheep it is for his loss of profit for his business , but he understands such things happen in the course of being a Sheppard and soon things are back to business as usual .

    Notice their reactions is to always remove the sheep's ability to protect themselves NOT to remove the predator .

    Back in the 80's when criminologists studies of violent criminals came to the conclusion that the worst of violent crimes are committed by a small percentage of even the criminal population and that even a murderer often isn't just "Born" but instead begins with less violent crimes and progress until he has "Graduated" to murder we began passing laws to attempt to address the problem .

    Even with this proof in front of them the liberal gun banners either had to be dragged kicking and screaming into voting for laws like the "three strikes your out" and to this day are trying to dismantle them with cries and complaints of Prison overpopulation rather than funding the building of new prisons to remove them permanently from society , or they simply reject any and all logic when it come to crime control and find a way to blame society "The sheep" for being victims of the predator in the first place .

    Look at the lies they have told over the years and anyone can clearly see their "Agenda" Black Talon ammo never did penetrate a LEOS protective vest but was invented to help a LEO stay alive by stopping a criminal with as few shots fired as possible . So called assault weapons never were th weapon of choice because of their size and are defined by the gun grabbers based solely on appearances . The Children they use in gathering their statistics are often 18-20 years old and gang members and as such willing participants of the crimes which cause their deaths .

    They have even after years of controlling the courts established that our assigned "Protectors" or "Sheppard's" can't be held liable for failing or refusing to protect us as an individual .

    As it stands , you could be murdered in front of a police station with every cop on duty watching and your family would have zero recourse as longs as they hadn't participating in the attack that caused your death .

    Don't think it's possible ?

    Last year during Pro illegal rallies Americans were savagely assaulted by illegals for silently protesting including a WWII veteran who was simply standing and holding up a sign in full view of uniformed officers who stood and did nothing because they were afraid they would set off a riot by protecting a citizen of this country exercising his First Amendment Right .
     
  24. rainbowbob

    rainbowbob Member

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    I've noticed the same thing and have been wondering what precipitated this incident.

    From what has been printed, it sounded like a belligerent shoving match. If that's all there was to it - that Glock should have never seen the light of day, particularly in that crowd.

    If, on the other hand, Grainger was minding his own business and was assaulted - that makes the appearance of the Glock a little more comprehensible. But even in that circumstance it should probably not have been brought out in that crowd. Especially considering the fact that in the absence of a weapon in the other fellow's hands, Grainger would have had other reasonable alternatives.

    This is of course only my opinon - after the fact - without many facts to go on.

    I will be very surprised if the Mayor is able to pre-empt state law and pass a partial gun ban on city property. But meanwhile, he'll get to go on record for trying to do something about gun violence. Nevermind that he knows better. It's just more cynical dishonesty from a politician - something we are all way too familiar with, unfortunately.
     
  25. Aguila Blanca

    Aguila Blanca Member

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    I am not a Washington resident, so I suppose it's really none of my business. Except that I have friends and family in Washington and I never know when/if I may be headed there.

    The 14-day "commitment" is an observation period only. No meaningful treatment for any mental condition can take place in 14 days. IMHO it would be setting a very dangerous precedent to start denying civil rights on the basis of nothing more than the person having been under observation for a fortnight.

    Suppose the incident that led to the enforced observation was nothing more than a reaction to a new prescription, or a benign incident? After the 2-week observation, the person is deemed either not to be a danger to himself or others, or he may even be deemed to not have any problem at all. Why should such a person be thereafter denied his/her right to self-defense?
     
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