Seattle Mayor Plans Concealed-Weapons Ban

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rainbowbob

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The following article was published in The Seattle Times today regarding our goofy, bobble-headed Mayor's reponse to the shooting incident at the Seattle Folklife Festival last month.

Nickels reportedly plans concealed-weapons ban at festivals
By Sharon Pian Chan

Seattle Times staff reporter

Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels plans to ban concealed weapons at festivals after a shooting at Northwest Folklife injured three people.

Sarah Thorsnes, who was shot in the leg, said Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske told her Friday the mayor would issue a ban shortly.

The mayor's office and Police Department declined to comment Friday. They have scheduled a news conference Monday to discuss an executive order on concealed weapons, but did not provide any details, such as how a ban would be enforced and whether festival officials would be held responsible for violations.

Thorsnes said a ban would affect events funded or sponsored by the city. She did not know any other specifics.

Joshua Penaluna, her boyfriend, who was shot in the arm, called a ban a good idea. "At a public area like that, the only people that should have weapons should be cops and security."

On May 25, the two Renton residents were hit by stray gunfire after a fight erupted between two men. A bullet shattered Penaluna's wrist and then entered Thorsnes' thigh. A third man, Henry Morris, who was struggling with the gunman, suffered powder burns on the upper lip and nose when the gun discharged close to his face.

It was the first shooting in the festival's 37-year history.

A 22-year-old Snohomish man, Clinton Chad Grainger, has been charged with second-degree assault. Grainger, a house painter, has a history of drug addiction and schizophrenia, prosecutors say.

"Honestly, I'm glad it will hopefully stop this [from happening] in the future, but I still feel like there could have been more done at the festival in the first place," Thorsnes said.

She said police standing nearby could have stopped the fight earlier.

"The real concern is whether they had a better way of assessing people's mental health before they let them have a concealed-weapon permit in the first place," she said.

Grainger received his permit from the Snohomish County Sheriff's Office in January 2007, even though federal and state law should have prevented him from having one.

Nickels has urged the Legislature to pass a law denying guns to anyone who has been involuntarily committed to a mental-health facility.

Thorsnes and Penaluna said money has been a real worry since the shooting two weeks ago. Although both have health insurance, neither has been able to work.

Thorsnes, 21, just graduated from the University of Washington-Tacoma and had been searching for a job in broadcast journalism or public relations while working as a nanny.

Now on crutches, she said, she can't work. Even walking around a grocery store is exhausting.

"The bullet wound has healed up really nicely, but it's still in my leg and there's quite a large bump over where the bullet is now," she said.

Penaluna, who was a plumbing assistant at a countertop-installation company, says he won't be able to pursue his plumbing career with the damage done to his wrist. The 18-year-old is now considering returning to school to pursue a business degree instead.

"It's been very, very inconvenient for us, to put it lightly," Penaluna said.

What follows is my letter to the Times:

To the Editor of the Seattle Times:

Two innocent people were severely injured by a firearm at our beloved Folklife Festival, and so it is not surprising that people feel we should do something. Mayor Nickels, as is often the case with politicians, has come up with a feel-good answer that is entirely useless: Ban handguns by law-abiding citizens at our festivals and create another “gun-free” zone.

But here is the catch: Those persons irresponsible and unbalanced enough to commit violence are not in any way hampered by gun restrictions. News Flash…Criminals don’t obey the law! The vast majority of citizens that legally carry a concealed weapon never commit acts of violence.

What that means is those responsible gun owners who choose to legally carry a concealed weapon to protect themselves and their families from criminal violence will be rendered defenseless by a law that is unconstitutional. Thugs and criminals that respect neither laws nor public safety will continue to be armed to the teeth. And we will all be that much more at risk.

Consider that in 37 years there has been only one incidence of violence committed with a firearm, and this was by a person who apparently has serious issues with mental illness and drug addiction. I can assure you that in those 37 years, hundreds, and perhaps thousands of responsible citizens have attended the Folklife Festival with a legally concealed firearm without incident.

The truth is that responsible gun owners use their firearms only in the gravest extreme and as a last resort to prevent unlawful violence.
 
Wait... the mayor wants to get a law passed that would essentially echo the already in place law?

Shockingly typical.

I know, how about instead of passing another silly law, why don't the have an investigation to find out why the law currently in place wasn't followed.

A history of drugs and schiz? Why not find out why he was given a carry permit and why he was allowed to be sold a firearm?

Oh yeah, then they would have to admit that this happened because the government screwed up and put citizens in danger. Can't have that can we.
 
The Mayor wants to do something? How about insisting that the Snohomish County Sheriff's Office comply with state and federal law by not issuing permits to people who are schizophrenic? Law-abiding citizens have to give up their rights because you can't trust the local law enforcement agency to do their jobs?

This is ridiculous.
 
What a surprise, a politician throwing up the first emotion-based answer that comes to mind regardless of efficiency. I don't know whether to blame this moron or the ones that elected him.
 
From what I've read elsewhere about Seattle, maybe Hanoi Jane (Fonda) could get elected as mayor. She might have become Hillary's Secretary of State.

That area, as with Berkeley, SF, Madison and some other areas, is out to lunch ('tits up'/dreaming), permanently.
 
Grainger received his permit from the Snohomish County Sheriff's Office in January 2007, even though federal and state law should have prevented him from having one.

Can't the feds arrest the sheriff?
 
Thanks for putting this up!

We received a letter from a Seattle friend tonight about this very matter. We have several friends that live in WA state.

Catherine
 
Another brilliant knee-jerk reaction.

It sounds like an administrative screw-up was responsible for this guy's permit being issued in the first place, so arguments against issuing permits --within the bounds of the law-- are flawed if this is used as the case study... In essence, the idea of legally concealed weapons is not at fault here!

Moreover, a single act of violence in 37 years is hardly a cause for concern on the part of the city. Overall, this sounds like a very safe festival!


By the way, Rainbow, that was a very well written response!
 
Pretty good letter, but...
Two innocent people were severely injured by a firearm at our beloved Folklife Festival,
Your opening sentence plays right into the Antis' hands. Innocent people weren't injured by the firearm. The firearm is just an object. They were injured by an evil,crazy, person with a firearm.

Grainger committed the crime, not the gun. Without Grainger, the gun would have just been lying there. Without the gun, Grainger would have resorted to a knife or a hammer, or even a rock.
 
Wow, 1 incident in 37 years, probably thousands of festivals. I think that's something to applaud! You can probably attribute the reduced crime to those who carry concealed.

Why tamper with something that works overall?
 
I have to speak up here in defense of the Snohomish sheriff's office. I would point out that they have been issuing my carry permit for about 20 years now. What some of the posters here may not realize, since it was given little attention by the media, is that Washington state law has some strict criteria governing the declination of a carry permit. The accused in this case had never, to my knowledge, been involuntarily committed for mental health treatment. This would have made him ineligible for a carry permit.

http://www1.co.snohomish.wa.us/Departments/Sheriff/Information/concealed_weapons.htm is the website explaining the criteria for granting a permit in Washington state. You will note there are no grounds under RCW 9.41.040 for declining a permit based on drug abuse or schizophrenia, unless the applicant has been involuntarily committed for this or has been convicted of certain drug crimes. You might be able to make an argument that a CPL could be denied if the applicant was the subject of a forfeiture court order based upon being arrested while mentally incompetent while carrying a firearm. But as far as I have read in the media, that had not happened prior to the accused opening fire at the Folklife festival. He had some mental health and drug abuse issues, but I don't recall reading that he had ever been convicted or committed for a disqualifying offense.

If my recall is poor, and there have been any media articles documenting that the accused in this case was ineligible for a CPL, with supporting facts, and the Snohomish sheriff issued one in error, I would like to see the articles.
 
If the man with a firearm was defending himself from an attacker I can see this being thrown squarely at the sherrif's feet. Especially if there where two armed deputies who watched the fight and did nothing until a shot rang out.
Hey if it is good enough for Jon Q public to be tried in court I can see this rolling right into the sherrif's lap as his fault and being prosecuted for negligence.
 
As Already Pointed Out...

Two innocent people were severely injured by a firearm at our beloved Folklife Festival...
People may be killed or injured with firearms, vehicles, etc., not by them. The prohibitionists love to play games with semantics and we need to be more careful of our grammar.
 
We live in Everett, which is in the Seattle sphere of cultural/economic influence. Therefore I have some familiarity with a few luminaries of the Seattle political scene. Greg Nickels is card-carrying Lefty Imbecile of the ilk of Jim McDimwit (D-Peoples' Republic of Seattle). WA State has pre-emption and State law specifies where one may carry concealed with a permit. Gauleiter Nickels has nothing to say about it. He is just passing gas to appear that he is "doing something" about a non-existant problem. He does that a lot.
 
If the man with a firearm was defending himself from an attacker I can see this being thrown squarely at the sherrif's feet. Especially if there where two armed deputies who watched the fight and did nothing until a shot rang out.
Hey if it is good enough for Jon Q public to be tried in court I can see this rolling right into the sherrif's lap as his fault and being prosecuted for negligence.

Actually, this incident occurred in the city of Seattle, under the jurisdiction of the Seattle Police Department. The issues related to the Snohomish County Sheriff do not pertain to the response to the actual assault, since it was members of the SPD who were present.
 
Grainger received his permit from the Snohomish County Sheriff's Office in January 2007, even though federal and state law should have prevented him from having one.

Can someone enlighten me as to which federal law regulates the qualification criteria for state-issued CPLs?

And, as a previous poster noted, unless the shooter was involuntarily committed to a mental institution, or his drug issues included a felony conviction, nothing in the law prohibits him from having a CPL or purchasing a firearm.
 
There is a pretty good thread on the shooting that caused this statement by the mayor on OCDO. If you read into the thread, there is someone in it who works/ed at a gun shop that the shooter used to shop at. His post was pretty eye opening.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/11642.html

As far as the mayor trying to ban concealed weapons at his festival, the only way he can do it is to change state law. I don't think that is going to happen.

We have this nice law out here called "State Preemption". The bold I put in there so it won't be skimmed over.

RCW 9.41.290
State preemption.

The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.

All in all, other than the stance on NFA weapons (and Seattle), WA is actually a fairly pro-gun state.

bob
 
Just like his socialist brother Mayor Nutter of Philadelphia, the idea of preemption doesn't seem to bother our Mayor "Quimby". He relies on the willingness of the sheep here to back him on his restrictive ideas regardless of actual law.
Other than the ubiquitous lefties inhabiting most of the elective offices in this state, it is a fairly good gun rights state. At least so far. The real schizophrenic here is the state of Washington. Maybe it's too much coffee..... :cuss:
 
Your opening sentence plays right into the Antis' hands. Innocent people weren't injured by the firearm. The firearm is just an object. They were injured by an evil,crazy, person with a firearm.

People may be killed or injured with firearms, vehicles, etc., not by them. The prohibitionists love to play games with semantics and we need to be more careful of our grammar.

Mr White and spwenger both make good points. I should have been more careful with my choice of words.

Although the Seattle Times often prints my letters on other subjects - they have never printed a letter from me on the subject of firearms. I don't ecxpect them to print this one either. Come to think of it - I don't remember ever seeing any pro-2A letters in either daily.

Perhaps they have another agenda?

You will note there are no grounds under RCW 9.41.040 for declining a permit based on drug abuse or schizophrenia, unless the applicant has been involuntarily committed for this or has been convicted of certain drug crimes.

Millcreek is right about this. Unless a person has been involuntarily committed for more than 14 days - they are eligible for a CPL if they otherwise qualify.

The courts have essentially three choices when making a commitment order - 14 days, 90 days, or 180 days. There is currently discussion about changing the CPL statutes to include the 14 day commitment as a disqualification for a CPL.

And most of the local newspaper articles have not been at all accurate about that.

Again..might it be that they have another agenda?
 
I agree with Mill Creek. The Snohomish County Deputy's office has been professional and courteous when issuing concealed pistol licenses. They were following the law, which is clear-cut and reasonable. Do you want a doctor turning you in every time you come in for counseling or have a medication prescribed?

I've had sedatives prescribed to me for claustrophobia when flying to Hawaii for a family trip. I ended up not using any, but keeping it together in that hermetically sealed aluminum can was aided by knowing the medication was there. Do I need to be turned in?

The papers have been very evasive about printing the cause of this incident. The other person involved in the fight, the one who got a gunpowder tattoo on his upper lip, has not been identified or charged.
 
Perhaps they have another agenda
?

No perhaps about it , their agenda hasn't changed in decades and is always clear , make up whatever lies they have to in order to strip law abiding citizens of any and all means of resisting tyranny , not to prevent crime or protect anyone .

Much like a Sheppard is the overseer of a flock of sheep so they wish to be with us . And while said Sheppard is upset when a predator kills one of his flock it isn't because of a true concern for the individual sheep it is for his loss of profit for his business , but he understands such things happen in the course of being a Sheppard and soon things are back to business as usual .

Notice their reactions is to always remove the sheep's ability to protect themselves NOT to remove the predator .

Back in the 80's when criminologists studies of violent criminals came to the conclusion that the worst of violent crimes are committed by a small percentage of even the criminal population and that even a murderer often isn't just "Born" but instead begins with less violent crimes and progress until he has "Graduated" to murder we began passing laws to attempt to address the problem .

Even with this proof in front of them the liberal gun banners either had to be dragged kicking and screaming into voting for laws like the "three strikes your out" and to this day are trying to dismantle them with cries and complaints of Prison overpopulation rather than funding the building of new prisons to remove them permanently from society , or they simply reject any and all logic when it come to crime control and find a way to blame society "The sheep" for being victims of the predator in the first place .

Look at the lies they have told over the years and anyone can clearly see their "Agenda" Black Talon ammo never did penetrate a LEOS protective vest but was invented to help a LEO stay alive by stopping a criminal with as few shots fired as possible . So called assault weapons never were th weapon of choice because of their size and are defined by the gun grabbers based solely on appearances . The Children they use in gathering their statistics are often 18-20 years old and gang members and as such willing participants of the crimes which cause their deaths .

They have even after years of controlling the courts established that our assigned "Protectors" or "Sheppard's" can't be held liable for failing or refusing to protect us as an individual .

As it stands , you could be murdered in front of a police station with every cop on duty watching and your family would have zero recourse as longs as they hadn't participating in the attack that caused your death .

Don't think it's possible ?

Last year during Pro illegal rallies Americans were savagely assaulted by illegals for silently protesting including a WWII veteran who was simply standing and holding up a sign in full view of uniformed officers who stood and did nothing because they were afraid they would set off a riot by protecting a citizen of this country exercising his First Amendment Right .
 
The papers have been very evasive about printing the cause of this incident.

I've noticed the same thing and have been wondering what precipitated this incident.

From what has been printed, it sounded like a belligerent shoving match. If that's all there was to it - that Glock should have never seen the light of day, particularly in that crowd.

If, on the other hand, Grainger was minding his own business and was assaulted - that makes the appearance of the Glock a little more comprehensible. But even in that circumstance it should probably not have been brought out in that crowd. Especially considering the fact that in the absence of a weapon in the other fellow's hands, Grainger would have had other reasonable alternatives.

This is of course only my opinon - after the fact - without many facts to go on.

I will be very surprised if the Mayor is able to pre-empt state law and pass a partial gun ban on city property. But meanwhile, he'll get to go on record for trying to do something about gun violence. Nevermind that he knows better. It's just more cynical dishonesty from a politician - something we are all way too familiar with, unfortunately.
 
Bob R said:
The courts have essentially three choices when making a commitment order - 14 days, 90 days, or 180 days. There is currently discussion about changing the CPL statutes to include the 14 day commitment as a disqualification for a CPL.
I am not a Washington resident, so I suppose it's really none of my business. Except that I have friends and family in Washington and I never know when/if I may be headed there.

The 14-day "commitment" is an observation period only. No meaningful treatment for any mental condition can take place in 14 days. IMHO it would be setting a very dangerous precedent to start denying civil rights on the basis of nothing more than the person having been under observation for a fortnight.

Suppose the incident that led to the enforced observation was nothing more than a reaction to a new prescription, or a benign incident? After the 2-week observation, the person is deemed either not to be a danger to himself or others, or he may even be deemed to not have any problem at all. Why should such a person be thereafter denied his/her right to self-defense?
 
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