"Secret" Police
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TheFederalistWeasel
member
I think there called Detectives/Investigators...
Aguila Blanca
Member
Not all.
About 90% to 95% of CT state police cruisers are unmarked, at least as far as oaint and markings. They are "plain vanilla" Ford Crown Vics -- and a few completely unmarked Camaros and Mustangs, according to my informants in the Nutmeg State. CT assigned a cruiser to each trooper, and he/she takes it home at the end of the shift and uses it as a personal vehicle. Although all the cruisers are equipped with a light bar, apparently the command structure doesn't require that those $3500 toys be used, because when I've driven through CT I see a lot of cruisers without light bars. Most of the time I wouldn't noitice them at all, except if I have the CB radio turned on and I get a Smokey report from truckers.
Third_Rail
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Most cruisers I see around here are unmarked except for blue license plates.
Works for me, they catch more unsafe drivers (excess speed, dangerous to other drivers, etc)
Works for me, they catch more unsafe drivers (excess speed, dangerous to other drivers, etc)
Kamicosmos
Member
I don't understand the Tin Foil concern over unmarked police cars.
I saw a thread someplace where someone posted pics of a 'subdued' paint scheme of a HP car. They were just livid over how this vehicle would be hard to see at night, and the stickers 'weren't reflective' enough.
Uh, so? Sounds like a guilty conscious to me...
I fail to see how an unmarked car is a threat to Liberty or a sign of The Coming Police State.
Keep in mind, I have several tin foil hats that I wear, but I just don't get the
concern on this topic.
I saw a thread someplace where someone posted pics of a 'subdued' paint scheme of a HP car. They were just livid over how this vehicle would be hard to see at night, and the stickers 'weren't reflective' enough.
Uh, so? Sounds like a guilty conscious to me...
I fail to see how an unmarked car is a threat to Liberty or a sign of The Coming Police State.
Keep in mind, I have several tin foil hats that I wear, but I just don't get the
concern on this topic.
Lot of projection going on here, folks. I merely asked if there was a source for stats on the change in ratio over the years. To leap from there to accusing people of having something to hide (btw, I love that apology for the loss of civil rights - "if you weren't guilty you wouldn't need them") says more about the respondent than the questioner, IMO.
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I am a detective and I have an unmarked take home car (1995 Mercury Topaz). I'm not allowed to use it off duty. My lights are inside the car next to the rear view mirror. Though I can make traffic stops my department frowns on it. I've been told that if I see something call for a patrol car. I suppose there is a concern that somebody might think I'm a bad guy and start shooting. We do have street crime units. They drive unmarked 2002 Crown Vics. Why? Well there are times that a plain looking car can be a real advantage when trying to catch "street criminals" in the act. Patrol cars are detterents - which is good, but there are times when one wants to actaully be able to catch them in the act.
And of course unmarked units very useful for when we are trolling for law abiding citizens and making them vanish in the night.
Just kidding guys. 
And of course unmarked units very useful for when we are trolling for law abiding citizens and making them vanish in the night.
Just kidding guys.
carebear
Member
It does raise the question of intent.
Is the primary intent of traffic patrol to provide a general visible deterrent to misbehaviour or is it enforcement and citation of traffic laws?
If it is general deterrence, to "keep honest drivers honest," with the understanding that the majority are "good guys", then the visible reminder of a marked car fits the need to a "T."
Alternately, if the primary intent is enforcement, with the assumption that we need to "catch the bad guys;" then being "sneaky" and having unmarked cars as the majority is logical.
What skews this balance of intentionality and suitability is the new seeming emphasis on "revenue enhancement" by enforcement.
If the PD gets the idea that their budget is proportional to their ability to generate traffic fine income then their purity of intent is called into question. That would make the increasing prevalence of unmarked traffic patrol cars (if it exists) more sinister and make it reasonable to assume that safety has taken a backseat to money.
Which forms a big part of my objection to using unmarked cameras to send tickets for speeding or red light running. If you truly want to reduce the incidence of the offense, mark that sucker with neon. Then only the true bad apples will get dinged, the good apples will see it and not offend.
Is the primary intent of traffic patrol to provide a general visible deterrent to misbehaviour or is it enforcement and citation of traffic laws?
If it is general deterrence, to "keep honest drivers honest," with the understanding that the majority are "good guys", then the visible reminder of a marked car fits the need to a "T."
Alternately, if the primary intent is enforcement, with the assumption that we need to "catch the bad guys;" then being "sneaky" and having unmarked cars as the majority is logical.
What skews this balance of intentionality and suitability is the new seeming emphasis on "revenue enhancement" by enforcement.
If the PD gets the idea that their budget is proportional to their ability to generate traffic fine income then their purity of intent is called into question. That would make the increasing prevalence of unmarked traffic patrol cars (if it exists) more sinister and make it reasonable to assume that safety has taken a backseat to money.
Which forms a big part of my objection to using unmarked cameras to send tickets for speeding or red light running. If you truly want to reduce the incidence of the offense, mark that sucker with neon. Then only the true bad apples will get dinged, the good apples will see it and not offend.
WvaBill
Member
Sounds like the argument that deer decoys used by the DNR constitute entrapment.
Kamicosmos
Member
The Good Apples are already obeying traffic laws, and don't need to be reminded by seeing Cop Cars on every corner.
You're crediting the average driver with being observant a bit too easily, I think.
Around here, people don't notice and usually don't move out of the way when a FIRETRUCK with lights and sirens going full bore is behind them.
Noticing a white box on a poll that says police isn't going to get their attention. And even if it does, it's not like people run a stop sign because there isn't a camera or a cop car to catch them.
Checkman brings out a good point I overlooked. I'm not talking about (a) personal cars used by LEOs, (b) dep't issue cars used just to go back and forth to work, or (c) cars used for deep undercover work (suppresses mental image of Belker in a ghetto bomb). I'm referring to department owned cars that are used daily as more than just commuters, that usually have (at least around here) a Gov't license tag, lights in the grill, and a spotlight, but otherwise aren't clearly marked as police cars (e.g., decals, special paint job, light bar on the roof, etc.). They often do make traffic stops. In the DC area they may or may not be the same model as standard issue squadrols, and I've seen SUVs, Impalas, and such in addition to the Caprices popular now (used to be Crown Vics... and then there was the sweetheart deal with the Volvo dealer in Vienna... but hey, I remember when it was Dodge Polaras!)
It's my observation that the ratio has climbed dramatically since the early 70's, but I could be wrong. Which is why I was looking for some hard facts.
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It's my observation that the ratio has climbed dramatically since the early 70's, but I could be wrong. Which is why I was looking for some hard facts.
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trapshooter
Member
Are these units used for traffic enforcement, or something else? Do they have radar or laser units, etc.?
There is a difference in TE philosophy between 'deterrent' type patrol in marked units, vs. 'enforcement' (revenue generating activity) in unmarked units. Funding issues will drive a jurisdiction to gravitate towards enforcement rather than deterrence. Do you want to slow people down, or write a ticket?
It's been the practice of the Troopers here in MO to use unmarked units in certain areas for many years. And disregarding the radio, some of them are pretty tough to 'outrun', no matter what you are driving. OTOH, I haven't noticed a significant difference in enforcement vs. deterrence over time. The unmarked units generally gravitate towards getting the flagrant violators vs. some joe at less than 5+ over the limit. They aren't unreasonable. But then, I haven't had a ticket in a long time (I'm knocking on wood here).
Actually, having been on both sides of the traffic enforcement game, it boils down to this. If you are going to do the crime, don't whine if you have to do the time (or the fine). I drive cross-country, in many states, a great deal. I haven't seen, as I've said, the boys in blue (or brown, or whatever) making an inordinate effort to catch everyone a hair over the line. They are more likely to snag you at greater than +5 over, or weaving around maniacally, DUI, or meeting a druggie profile or something. Marked or not. JMO.
There is a difference in TE philosophy between 'deterrent' type patrol in marked units, vs. 'enforcement' (revenue generating activity) in unmarked units. Funding issues will drive a jurisdiction to gravitate towards enforcement rather than deterrence. Do you want to slow people down, or write a ticket?
It's been the practice of the Troopers here in MO to use unmarked units in certain areas for many years. And disregarding the radio, some of them are pretty tough to 'outrun', no matter what you are driving. OTOH, I haven't noticed a significant difference in enforcement vs. deterrence over time. The unmarked units generally gravitate towards getting the flagrant violators vs. some joe at less than 5+ over the limit. They aren't unreasonable. But then, I haven't had a ticket in a long time (I'm knocking on wood here).
Actually, having been on both sides of the traffic enforcement game, it boils down to this. If you are going to do the crime, don't whine if you have to do the time (or the fine). I drive cross-country, in many states, a great deal. I haven't seen, as I've said, the boys in blue (or brown, or whatever) making an inordinate effort to catch everyone a hair over the line. They are more likely to snag you at greater than +5 over, or weaving around maniacally, DUI, or meeting a druggie profile or something. Marked or not. JMO.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
SFAIK, Texas doesn't use unmarked cars in traffic control.
Florida passed a law back in the late 1950s or early 1960s prohibiting the use of unmarked cars and/or non-uniformed personnel in traffic control.
Art
Florida passed a law back in the late 1950s or early 1960s prohibiting the use of unmarked cars and/or non-uniformed personnel in traffic control.
Art
I beg to differ. DPD bought a crap-load of dark blue Crown Vics in or around 1998 to use specifically for traffic enforcement. My roommate drove one for a while. Maybe you were referring to DPS alone.
Anyway, these things were really hard to spot. No visible lights but they lit up light a Christmas tree when needed. All strobes in every socket and even in the side view mirrors.
Greg
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
TarpleyG: Thanx. Interesting. I've generally avoided cities for the last 20+ years, so I haven't run across this. Sheriffs and DPS generally don't use unmarked, from what I've seen...
Art
Sheriffs and DPS generally don't use unmarked, from what I've seen...Art
Joe Demko
Member
Given the number of fake cop incidents we've had in the area over the last few years, I won't pull over for an unmarked car; even one with a light package. Any yahoo or pervert can buy flashing lights and they do. LE personnel in unmarked vehicles who wish to speak with me are just going to have to follow me to the nearest well-lit public area or police station to have that chat.
I've done a little work as a deputy sheriff, and I'm all for uniforms and marked vehicles for most circumstances.
I've done a little work as a deputy sheriff, and I'm all for uniforms and marked vehicles for most circumstances.
What i find funny, is in my neck of the woods, unmarked cruisers have the darkest window tint in the world. Yes these cruisers are used for traffic. The tint they have on the windows would get me pulled over and ticketed, but not the LEO's. Laws for them, different laws for us.
HankB
Member
There were problems in the Austin, TX area within the last couple of years with a fake cop in an unmarked car making traffic stops and/or abusing women . . . ditto for down around the Houston area. Sirens and flashing lights can be had cheap - I remember seeing PAGES of them back in my high school days when thumbing through a J.C. Whitney or Warshawsky auto parts catalog.
Fake cops aren't a huge problem, but even so I'd be REAL reluctant to stop for an unmarked car just because it has some flashing lights.
Fake cops aren't a huge problem, but even so I'd be REAL reluctant to stop for an unmarked car just because it has some flashing lights.
DPD has been at that for a good long time, actually. Dad was issued a Plymouth Acclaim and would routinely sit around and shoot radar. The flatfoots loved it when the chief sat in a driveway with a radar gun. They even gave him a plaque that said "thanks for being in the trenches" or somesuch.
A couple of years ago, Richardson PD bought burgundy and gold crown vics (that's two different cars, not a two-tone) with matte-black spotlights for traffic patrol. I'm not certain, but I'll bet Plano did the same. Both cities were having trouble with red-light runners and streetracers. Dunno how that worked out for them.
I would guess that it's difficult to figure out the ratio of marked/unmarked cars if you go back more than about 30 years. I guess you could focus on large cities, but I've seen LEOs of various types driving around in every kind of vehicle, marked or not in rural areas.
The number one reason that light bars disappeared from the roof of squad cars...
The cost of fuel. That's right, many agencies removed light bars when they realized how much could be saved in fuel costs. IMHO this is what caused the trend toward unmarked cars. It really doesn't have much to do with entrapping speeders. Reflective striping and lettering isn't inexpensive either. So a lot of agencies around here stopped striping their cars when they removed the light bars.
I'll check with a trooper buddy of mine and get the right figures, but the ISP dropped lightbars several years ago to save money on fuel, then when a new director wanted light bars back a few years ago, the fuel cost went back up. Considering the rise in fuel prices this summer, I wouldn't be surprised to see the light bars disappear again.
Jeff
The cost of fuel. That's right, many agencies removed light bars when they realized how much could be saved in fuel costs. IMHO this is what caused the trend toward unmarked cars. It really doesn't have much to do with entrapping speeders. Reflective striping and lettering isn't inexpensive either. So a lot of agencies around here stopped striping their cars when they removed the light bars.
I'll check with a trooper buddy of mine and get the right figures, but the ISP dropped lightbars several years ago to save money on fuel, then when a new director wanted light bars back a few years ago, the fuel cost went back up. Considering the rise in fuel prices this summer, I wouldn't be surprised to see the light bars disappear again.
Jeff
carebear
Member
They need "stealth" light bars, that retract into the roof until deployed.
Like Airwolf's guns.
I think it'd be cool to be pulled over by THAT kind of unmarked.
...as long as I could play with the switches while they wrote me up.
Like Airwolf's guns.
I think it'd be cool to be pulled over by THAT kind of unmarked.
...as long as I could play with the switches while they wrote me up.
SMMAssociates
Member
Checkman:
If my department (actually, rent-a-cop agency) gave me a '95 Topaz, I wouldn't admit it....
But that's the general rule around here - unmarked cars are generally not used for Traffic. OTOH, there's no prohibition against it.
Some decades past, when radar enforcement required two cars because the car with the radar unit couldn't be moved after a complicated setup procedure, the the car with the radar unit was usually without a roof beacon. One snowy afternoon I observed a minor accident at a nasty spot in the road, and called the City to take it. A radar unit car (fully marked, but no roof light) came by to write the accident. My wannabemobile and it's lighting was necessary to protect the lot of us. Good for a laugh, at least.
Probably the funniest was what happened when the City went from Federal "Fireballs" (about 6" long and 3" high with a single 50-candlepower lamp and a rotating mirror inside) to a huge twin-sealed-beam roof light (about a foot high and a foot in diameter). One of my Patrol Division buddies was incensed because he couldn't sneak around in the black&white anymore. Somebody ordered a white rubber gasket between the base of the light and the roof. You could see 'em through a wall.... (Well, almost.)
I should also add that the "unmarked car" the City liked to use at the time was an ordinary Ford Custom with blackwalls and beanies. And license plates like "YPD-4". I don't know who dreamed that up, but I have suspicions.
(One of the City Captains put his phone in his wife's name and removed the house numbers from his mailbox, for security reasons. Then he parked his take-home in the driveway. Said take-home being a two-year-old black&white repainted gold, minus the roof beacon, but without bothering to take the big decal off the car before painting it.... He also didn't approve of two-way radios in the cars....)
(I have to go out and chip the house number off here - I don't think this guy's reading THR, but he does know me and....)
I gave up on the wannabemobiles and porcupine-like antenna farms after I got married. The wife didn't want to be seen in them. She did let me have one extra antenna, though. In 1984 I bought a blue Crown Vic and stuck a 19" spike on the rear fender for the hi-band radio. Blackwalls and beanies, but a half-vinyl roof. I went to lunch with the radio club guys and one of 'em happened to look out into the parking lot and say "hey, I wonder who belongs to that 'unmarked'?" AARGH....
(I was also one of the first 50 cellphone customers in the area - lots of people wondered what that little pigtail was when I did that a year or so later.)
Which leads to:
"What's a speeding late-model luxury car with extra antennas on it?"
"Police Brass late for lunch...."
If my department (actually, rent-a-cop agency) gave me a '95 Topaz, I wouldn't admit it....
But that's the general rule around here - unmarked cars are generally not used for Traffic. OTOH, there's no prohibition against it.
Some decades past, when radar enforcement required two cars because the car with the radar unit couldn't be moved after a complicated setup procedure, the the car with the radar unit was usually without a roof beacon. One snowy afternoon I observed a minor accident at a nasty spot in the road, and called the City to take it. A radar unit car (fully marked, but no roof light) came by to write the accident. My wannabemobile and it's lighting was necessary to protect the lot of us. Good for a laugh, at least.
Probably the funniest was what happened when the City went from Federal "Fireballs" (about 6" long and 3" high with a single 50-candlepower lamp and a rotating mirror inside) to a huge twin-sealed-beam roof light (about a foot high and a foot in diameter). One of my Patrol Division buddies was incensed because he couldn't sneak around in the black&white anymore. Somebody ordered a white rubber gasket between the base of the light and the roof. You could see 'em through a wall.... (Well, almost.)
I should also add that the "unmarked car" the City liked to use at the time was an ordinary Ford Custom with blackwalls and beanies. And license plates like "YPD-4". I don't know who dreamed that up, but I have suspicions.
(One of the City Captains put his phone in his wife's name and removed the house numbers from his mailbox, for security reasons. Then he parked his take-home in the driveway. Said take-home being a two-year-old black&white repainted gold, minus the roof beacon, but without bothering to take the big decal off the car before painting it.... He also didn't approve of two-way radios in the cars....)
(I have to go out and chip the house number off here - I don't think this guy's reading THR, but he does know me and....)
I gave up on the wannabemobiles and porcupine-like antenna farms after I got married. The wife didn't want to be seen in them. She did let me have one extra antenna, though. In 1984 I bought a blue Crown Vic and stuck a 19" spike on the rear fender for the hi-band radio. Blackwalls and beanies, but a half-vinyl roof. I went to lunch with the radio club guys and one of 'em happened to look out into the parking lot and say "hey, I wonder who belongs to that 'unmarked'?" AARGH....
(I was also one of the first 50 cellphone customers in the area - lots of people wondered what that little pigtail was when I did that a year or so later.)
Which leads to:
"What's a speeding late-model luxury car with extra antennas on it?"
"Police Brass late for lunch...."
Ryder
Member
Well I haven't been driving for 50-70 years but I can say we don't have many unmarked cars around here. I wish there were more though. Those sheeps slamming their brakes on the second they see a cop are a real hazard to navigation. I mean it's not like they were even breaking the law in the first place.
SMMAssociates
Member
Ryder:
That's the reason I have a radar detector.
I generally don't drive fast enough to need one. The Judges aren't amused when a rent-a-cop comes in to see them anyway, so....
But I used to drive to Anderson SC two or three times a year - about 750 miles down I-77 and I-85.
A good bit of I-77 is the West Virginia Turnpike, which is a nice road, and well patrolled.
However, there's one little place about midway down the state where the WVSP likes to sit off the road and watch for speeders. If the Trooper finds one, he lights up and takes off.... Pretty standard.
So, I'm roaring down the road at 55mph (you can guess how long ago that was) and some character goes flying by me, just about dusk. OK, fine, I don't get insulted by that sort of thing. Then the Trooper lights up and the idiot swings into the right lane and stands on his brakes.... My Crown Vic almost got a hood ornament.
I wait a bit to see if the Trooper wants to talk to me, but all I get is a "sheesh" look from him, and keep on trucking, thanking whatever gods there be that I got that brake job after all.
The following year, same time, same place, possibly same Trooper, but another idiot does exactly the same thing. I missed him, too.... And bought a radar detector as soon as I got back home....
I really don't drive fast enough to need the thing, but I do like to know where the radar is. I suppose I should spend for a laser detector, but I'm not sure they're worth the money. Meantime, the thing beeps all the time, which automatically makes me glance at the speedometer. Kinda like the old speed buzzers some cars had in the 60's.
(I haven't managed to get a speeding ticket since about 1969. 'Course, it's early today.... And, I don't give 'em, nor does my badge help much.)
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