Security Six; what good smith can do on it, especially regarding accuracy?

[Onty]

I am on a market for a nice lighter 357 Magnum DA revolver, stainless, 6" barrel, and about 35 oz weight. I had S&W 685-3 but sold it. Its 45 oz is more than I want for 357 magnum revolver.

Unfortunately, seems to me that there are just two options; S&W 66 and Ruger Security Six. Yeah, I know about no underlug GP100, but seems to me they are scarce. Same situation with S&W 686 without underlug.

That revolver will be shoot considerably, albeit 99% with something like souped up 38 Special.

As for S&W 66, very nice, but that flat spot on the bottom of aft side of the barrel bothers me. If barrel cracks, I am in hot water. In this part of the world (EU) there is no chance that somebody could fix it. And even if it could be fixed in Germany, just shipping cost (both directions) will hit me at least 400 euros, most likely close to 500.

So, the only remaining option looks to me is Security Six in a nice condition.

QUESTION: What a good smith could do regarding accuracy in SA mode (DA is irrelevant for me)? How much that tuning should cost? If that is a good solution, I will purchase one Security Six in USA, send it for tuning and ship on this side of big pond.

Anybody done custom work, tuning, on Security Six? What is the accuracy (SA mode) with cast bullets on 25 yards/meters?

Craig, seems to me that you are in custom revolvers more than anybody else here. Could you please chime something?

 

[Tallball]

Security Sixes haven't been produced for decades. They're becoming expensive and hard to find. Getting parts would be difficult.

 

[PzGren]

... How much that tuning should cost? If that is a good solution, I will purchase one Security Six in USA, send it for tuning and ship on this side of big pond.

...

Only a licensed FFL and exporter who has paid his annual fee of $2,000 to the State Department can export a firearm from the U.S. into Europe. Each export needs State Department approval and involves a lot of paperwork.

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

If Gary Reeder is still around, he's your Ruger customizing man. I think Dave Clements might have protege's doing the work now. Cylinder and slide. These are old name they might be retiring soon. Pac-Nor machinist once was a very solid go too, also.

 

[357 Terms]

Not sure you would need to do much if anything to a Security six.
I did change the hammer spring to a 12lb. (I shoot mostly DA)
I changed the grips.
The ejector rod was a little wobbly, so I changed it, $13 part, it locked up fine, just bothered me.
Parts are all over eBay and other venders.
Mine is from 1985, bought it less than 2yrs ago, VG condition.
Great 357.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Some of us here may have difficulty converting our thinking to the EU world -- I'm one of them.

I presume you're familiar with the current export regs US to Germany already? If not, you might want to consult with Polaris Logistics first and see what the procedure is before going any further.

How Did I Get My Guns to Finnish Brutality? Polaris Logistics.

www.forgottenweapons.com

A stainless Security Six with a 6" barrel (discontinued in the USA in 1988) isn't the easiest thing to find in the USA these days. FWIW I've never encountered one.

Finding a 6" 686 and having the underlug milled off would be an easier quest.

Is the 686 Performance Center model something you could source either here or in Germany? I know its only a 5-inch but it comes with a lightened barrel and weighs 38 oz.

https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/l-frame-11760

 

[Onty]

Only a licensed FFL and exporter who has paid his annual fee of $2,000 to the State Department can export a firearm from the U.S. into Europe. Each export needs State Department approval and involves a lot of paperwork.

Thanks, I know that. There are number of them doing export, so that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Big_Al]

For most people the pistol is going to be more accurate than the shooter from the factory.

 

[Onty]

Some of us here may have difficulty converting our thinking to the EU world -- I'm one of them.

I presume you're familiar with the current export regs US to Germany already? If not, you might want to consult with Polaris Logistics first and see what the procedure is before going any further.

How Did I Get My Guns to Finnish Brutality? Polaris Logistics.

www.forgottenweapons.com

A stainless Security Six with a 6" barrel (discontinued in the USA in 1988) isn't the easiest thing to find in the USA these days. FWIW I've never encountered one.

Finding a 6" 686 and having the underlug milled off would be an easier quest.

Is the 686 Performance Center model something you could source either here or in Germany? I know its only a 5-inch but it comes with a lightened barrel and weighs 38 oz.

https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/l-frame-11760

Well, there is a problem with modification. According to rules in a discipline I am involved, firearm has to be standard, stock, as it came from factory. I can replace parts, but on the end, firearm has to look and function as original. I can replace stocks, ordinary stocks from Hogue, Eagle, Pachmayr, etc, are OK. However, those orthopedic cannot be used.

As for the barrel, well, if I can get factory with partial lug for 686 or GP100, I could install it. If it's machined, cannot.

Another option is Manurhin MR88, made in France:



This one is about 39 oz, still less than 686 with 45 oz. Also, price is bit stiff, about 1400 euros, plus about 200 euros for shipping. Any way I slice it, about $2000 gun at my doorstep. Looking now for a nice used one. Found some 4" very reasonably priced (400 euros), but they are fixed sights.

 

[anothernewb]

hmm. given the location. If a 6" revolver is your hard limit. I would second getting a 686 or a GP100 and machining the balance of the underlug off.

If you are willing to entertain a shorter revolver. get yourself a GP100 match champion. it's lighter, half lug, and robust. Very accurate OOB, and with a wolff kit and some polish, you can have a reliable and light trigger.

Too bad Dan wesson isn't still making revolvers. they had interchangeable barrels and were highly accurate. They used to be fairly common on gunbroker too. haven't looked in awhile though.

 

[entropy]

Once way to maximize accuracy is to hand fit an oversized cylinder bolt(also called a cylinder stop) and an oversized hand. No idea on cost on that.

 

[.308 Norma]

Security Sixes haven't been produced for decades. They're becoming expensive and hard to find. Getting parts would be difficult.

What Tallball said. I have an old Security Six and love it. I wouldn't buy another Security Six though because I know how hard it has become to get parts for them. I'm dreading the day when the one I have breaks down.
Yeah, yeah, I know - "Security Sixes are built like tanks" and all that. Believe me - they can and do break down occationally.

 

[CraigC]

Unless something else is terribly off, trigger work is going to yield the single biggest result. Beyond that, standard tuning options usually include recutting the forcing cone, which may or may not require setting the barrel back a thread. Recutting the crown and correcting chamber throats. On the off chance that chamber/bore alignment is less than optimal, Taylor throating might be considered. None of this stuff is terribly expensive but it will add up. The Ruger Six series isn't hard to find parts for. Tons of them on Ebay. None of this basic tuning should require parts replacement.

I have a custom job on the bench of Andy Horvath but Jack Huntington does most of my gunsmithing work. Gary Reeder is a hack and David Clements is retired. Two others worth consideration are Bobby Tyler and John Powers. I would only use Bowen for a full custom job.

For the most part, I hate full underlugs. I see them as just unnecessary weight, so three of my four GP's are half lugs. My lone full lug is a 5" .44Spl and the bigger bore helps with weight.

 

[Boom Vang]

A stainless Security Six with a 6" barrel (discontinued in the USA in 1988) isn't the easiest thing to find in the USA these days. FWIW I've never encountered one.

Must be a California thing. Where I am in the East, I see 6" Security-Sixes everywhere. My local LGS gets several in on trade, consignment or from an estate sale every year.

My first revolver over 40 years ago was a brand new Security-Six 4". Shot the snot out of it and after 4000 rounds of magnums had to go back to Ruger to fix bullet spitting and timing. I really like these guns; today I have 4 of them. They are strong guns but not infallible. The issue with them from a parts perspective and wear is usually the hand (pawl in Ruger parlance). The Security-Six times on the thickness of this part. The factory had several sizes of widths to accommodate the variance between the frames, cylinder alignment and and ratchet teeth tolerances. To correct timing, a wider hand is usually required. The problem now, is that there are no new parts being produced, and you are replacing a used part with another used part which may be similarly worn. And if you find a "new" part, the seller rarely understands that there are varying sizes. It's a crap shoot.

While they are reasonably accurate, they are not known as tack-drivers either. Back in the day.... PPC nuts would have gunsmiths fit Colt Python barrels to them, springs lightened, actions polished, oversized bolts fitted, etc. These days it's nonsensical to pay to gunsmith a Security-Six when there are GP100 and S&W 686 available.

Buy a new Manuhrin M88, and save yourself some grief on many fronts.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Trigger job (smooth it out), check forcing cone, crown. That's about it (short of changing out the barrel).

BTW, I couldn't shoot the Security Six with original grips. Too small even for my small hands. I swapped them out for Pachmayrs (old two piece made in US) back in the '80s and had good luck with them. I did a lot of DA shooting with them.

 

[357 Terms]

What Tallball said. I have an old Security Six and love it. I wouldn't buy another Security Six though because I know how hard it has become to get parts for them. I'm dreading the day when the one I have breaks down.
Yeah, yeah, I know - "Security Sixes are built like tanks" and all that. Believe me - they can and do break down occationally.

I've heard this on the Internet quite often.
"Parts are hard to come by"
I own 3 currently, 5 total over the years.
Parts are easily found, in abundance.
Just a cursory internet search shows many sites with pages of Six series parts.
I've bought a few from some.
eBay also.
I'm certain the rear sights on my 1985 SS are the same as the ones on my GP100 and my Blackhawk!
Heck! A had a Speed six that the barrel broke off, taking the ejector rod with it.
I found all the parts to fix it!!
I chose to let Ruger replace it with a new revolver.
Six series parts are still available!
Numrich is one.
Classic has several.

Ruger Security Six Revolver Parts

Ruger Security Six Revolver Parts

cfnparts.com

eBay has all anyone would need to build a Six series from the frame UP!!

ruger security six barrel for sale | eBay

Get the best deals for ruger security six barrel at eBay.com. We have a great online selection at the lowest prices with Fast & Free shipping on many items!

www.ebay.com

 

[Riomouse911]

Parts for discontinued guns may be very tough to find in Germany, where the OP lives.

I don’t live there, but I can imagine even exporting used gun parts from the US takes jumping through some hoops.

Personally, saving up to buy the Manhurin .357 seems the way to go since a Korth is too pricy. (The Korth sure are expensive over here!) The Manhurin is being currently manufactured in the EU so there is less export/import hoopla from the US, and Manhurin has factory parts/support if something goes wrong.

Good luck with your search, let us know what you decided to do when you make the purchase.

Stay safe.

 

[StrawHat]

Buy the Model 66, smooth the action and never look back. For very K frame with a cracked barrel, there are hundreds or thousands that keep shooting fine.

Kevin

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Another option is Manurhin MR88, made in France:

This one is about 39 oz, still less than 686 with 45 oz. Also, price is bit stiff, about 1400 euros, plus about 200 euros for shipping. Any way I slice it, about $2000 gun at my doorstep. Looking now for a nice used one. Found some 4" very reasonably priced (400 euros), but they are fixed sights.

I was actually on the point of suggesting the Manurhin. The action is supposed to be ruggedized for extended magnum shooting, but I think the design emphasis was on DA function.

Manurhin MR73 - Double Action Secrets And A Funky 9mm Cylinder

BotR jumps on to the Manurhin MR73 love-fest bandwagon, well almost. Instead of gushing about the new production models now being distributed by Beretta, Cha...

www.youtube.com

I'm waiting for the Beretta Manurhin imports to make it onto the California roster. And then maybe waiting some more to win the lottery so I can afford one

 

[stonebuster]

Well, there is a problem with modification. According to rules in a discipline I am involved, firearm has to be standard, stock, as it came from factory. I can replace parts, but on the end, firearm has to look and function as original. I can replace stocks, ordinary stocks from Hogue, Eagle, Pachmayr, etc, are OK. However, those orthopedic cannot be used.

As for the barrel, well, if I can get factory with partial lug for 686 or GP100, I could install it. If it's machined, cannot.

Another option is Manurhin MR88, made in France:

View attachment 1169022

This one is about 39 oz, still less than 686 with 45 oz. Also, price is bit stiff, about 1400 euros, plus about 200 euros for shipping. Any way I slice it, about $2000 gun at my doorstep. Looking now for a nice used one. Found some 4" very reasonably priced (400 euros), but they are fixed sights.

You might consider a Dan Wesson 15-2 357 w/ V6" barrel. They're about the size you're looking for and have an amazing SA trigger, IMO. You can change/ set the B/C gap to whatever you wish in minutes with the interchangeable barrel system they use. There are also many grip options as they used a grip stub similar to Ruger GP100s. They've got a reputation as very accurate revolvers. Good luck in your quest.

 

[Jim Watson]

When I was shooting PPC, I saw two Security Sixes that had been fully customized by Clark. I don't know how accurate they were, but the Douglas barrels and Bomar sights should have done well. But one of them had a fairly good trigger pull and the other one did not. Clark does not work on them any more, the series is long discontinued.

That revolver will be shoot considerably, albeit 99% with something like souped up 38 Special.

As for S&W 66, very nice, but that flat spot on the bottom of aft side of the barrel bothers me.

Souped up how much? Why?
New SW 66 does not have the flat spot, but it is not available with a 6 inch barrel, either.
If you can get by with standard .38 Special, a Model 14 will shoot it roughly forever. A friend shot one loose and eroded about 1/3 of the rifling out of another but that was at 150,000 wadcutters each on heavily customized PPC match guns.

According to rules in a discipline I am involved, firearm has to be standard, stock, as it came from factory. I can replace parts, but on the end, firearm has to look and function as original. I can replace stocks, ordinary stocks from Hogue, Eagle, Pachmayr, etc, are OK. However, those orthopedic cannot be used.

As for the barrel, well, if I can get factory with partial lug for 686 or GP100, I could install it. If it's machined, cannot.

That sounds like a US PPC or NRA Distinguished Revolver. I shot a Colt Python for the purpose but the friend mentioned above shoots a Model 14.

I was going to suggest a Spohr, which is kind of a German M686 but they are as heavy as a 686.

I think the Manurhin is your best bet. Note that the MR88 is itself a development of the Ruger Security Six, the MR73 is an in-house design.

 

[PzGren]

I was actually on the point of suggesting the Manurhin. The action is supposed to be ruggedized for extended magnum shooting, but I think the design emphasis was on DA function.

Manurhin MR73 - Double Action Secrets And A Funky 9mm Cylinder

BotR jumps on to the Manurhin MR73 love-fest bandwagon, well almost. Instead of gushing about the new production models now being distributed by Beretta, Cha...

www.youtube.com

I'm waiting for the Beretta Manurhin imports to make it onto the California roster. And then maybe waiting some more to win the lottery so I can afford one

The MR88 has to be seen in context of Manurhin revolver history being linked to Raymond Sasia and his role in firearms procurement for the French police. After training with American law enforcement Sasia had ordered S&W revolvers and then convinced Manurhin to build a revolver to his requirements, the result was the MR73 but the French police had also bought Ruger firearms like the Mini 14 and the MR88 started as a licensed copy of a Ruger revolver, something closer to the SP101 than the GP100 but with a 6 shot cylinder. While I like my Mulhouse MR73 with the 5" barrel, I did not like the two MR88s I owned. Their trigger characteristics were not good enough for a revolver in that price class. It reminded me of the SP101 I had bought for $250 a few (more) years ago and happily gifted to my son when he liked it.

I have seen some very respectable Taurus revolvers in Germany that were imported by Hammerli Tiengen and underwent their strict quality control.

 

[GooseGestapo]

The Ruger S-6 as produced are capable of excellent accuracy. However, in actual execution, Ruger often ran into tolerance issues.
The single most important thing is a good trigger job. Polishing contact surfaces and replacing springs makes a huge difference. Secondly, making sure that the cylinder throats weren’t too tight.
I bought a Single-6 off the used table of Matthews Police Supply at the 2000 NRA PPC National Championship in Jackson, MS for a whopping $125.00. The grips were worn, and finish “distressed”.
Over the winter, I polished the finish, replaced the grips, and polished the trigger surfaces. I replaced the hammer and rebound springs with Wolff replacements. The front sight was loose in the slot, I corrected that with a filler of super glue. I carried it pig and deer hunting for several years. It was “decently” accurate with jacketed bullets and functional accurate with a cast bullet. I used the Lee 158gr .358” SWC-GC bullet that cast to 164gr. Over 14.5gr of #2400 it would get 1,300fps. Killed a couple of deer and a pig with it.
The issue with accuracy was the throat was about 0.002” under sized… ok with jacketed but too tight for cast.
Fast forward 15yrs and an internet cult drove the value up dramatically. I sold it for $600!

My preference is a Model 19 S&W. The barrel/cylinder relief cut is dramatically over blown. I’ve seen two that were split. One, had about 50,000 rounds of 125gr JHP loaded with then max loads of BlueDot. It belonged to the Gwinnett Co PD and was assigned to the training division. It was used for training and initial qualification.
The other was a converted PPC revolver with a bull barrel that had been excessively cut. It split after shooter tried to shoot out a squib that stuck in the barrel just past the forcing cone…
Under normal use, they’ll last several lifetimes…

Are Taurus available? I’ve got several that are the equal of most of the Rugers or S&W’s I’ve owned.

 

[Tallball]

I wasn't going to mention Taurus, but since others did so...

Yes, they have offered 6" 357's without a full underlug. Yes, they are mechanically very similar to a Smith. Some have a good trigger. Some need their triggers to be smoothed.

If one becomes available to the OP. it might be worth a look.

This is an Old Model 66, made in the early/mid 80's, IIRC. It has a Smith style hammer block instead of the later transfer bar. Its trigger isn't as good as my Model 28 or Match Champion, but it's very good. My only medium-framed revolver that has consistently better accuracy is my K22 Masterpiece.

Just a thought.

Taurus Model 66

• Tallball
• Jan 6, 2018

 

[Jim Watson]

I have seen some very respectable Taurus revolvers in Germany that were imported by Hammerli Tiengen and underwent their strict quality control.

Are Taurus available? I’ve got several that are the equal of most of the Rugers or S&W’s I’ve owned.

We see so much bad press on Taurus, but a friend has one that is brilliantly accurate with the right ammo. It shot WWB 110 gr .357 into an X ring group at 50 yards from Ransom Rest. Other ammo on hand was not bad but not great and reloads with Ranier plated wadcutters were just wild.