Self Defence Revisited

[FPrice]

Any man, women or Juvi carrying a gun is a potential criminal.

Taken to it's "logical" (and I use the term loosely) next step, any man, woman, or Juvi is a potential criminal, period. For many crimes are committed without a gun.

The illogical nature of your statement is demonstrated by the fact that many millions of gun owners, past and present (and future) did not turn to a life of crime merely because they carried or had a gun. The nature of man (the species, not the gender) is much more complicated than to reduce any future "potential" actions to the presence of an inanimate object.

A man/woman is either a responsible person or they are not. A responsible person is safe whether they are unarmed, have a gun, or a nuclear bomb. Said person will not use anything irresponsibly.

Conversely an irresponsible person is dangerous in any of the same states.

Anyone who truely believes that a person is a potential criminal due to the presence of an inanimate object simply mistrusts all of mankind and would probably welcome us all being reduced to wards of some all-powerful nanny-state.

Such a person is the most dangerous of all because they would enslave us all based upon an irrational fear of their fellow man.

 

[Graystar]

1stly, How do you think half of Robbers get guns? They are given a background check, they are found to be clean, the are issued with a weapon.

FBI surveys of convicted criminals show that over 80% of criminals that have used a gun acquired the gun through theft or street buys.

hongimaster, you are so uninformed that there's really no point in discussing this any further with you. And the problem isn’t your lack of knowledge, but more your clear bias and inability to understand what we are saying. Your ignorance is encyclopedic.

(My apologies to the forum for straying from the high road.)

 

[shield20]

Anyone who is not naive know there are bad people on this planet, thus crime. Most people use a gun purely for sport, others, they never really need to touch their gun, its just in case. Some, however are so corrupt in the mind, they shoot people, without reason.


And this exactly the reason why we carry - because we DO understand this fact, and we refuse to be put at the mercy of other people with bad intent (or governments with 'good' intent). And be aware, there ARE bad people who deserve to die too. They demand it by their actions - by commiting acts of terror, or murder, or by raping women or kids, etc. It is NOT our job to be vigilantes and go out looking for them, but it is OUR right, and OUR responsibility, to protect ourselves and our families from such scumbags.

It is NOT up to you, or the government, to make the decision as to who just might turn out to be a criminal or who will not - that leads to elitism, favoritism, special treatment, unfair treatment of innocent people, etc. etc. People are supposed to be - and should be - judges by their actions, and take responsibility for those actions. It is not up to you, and it should not be left to anyone else to say my wife can't own a gun to protect herself from a rapist, because of some mistaken theory that owning a gun MIGHT make her a criminal, or for any other reason. The instance of owning a gun turning someone into a cold hearted criminal happens ALOT less then you have been led to believe.

Most criminals are not stupid - they would much rather target someone weak and unarmed. THAT is why crime rates always go down when more people are allowed to be armed. WE deserve the advantage - not them.

So you know that there are evil people, you know they do evil things, yet you still really want to take away the victim's best chance for survival?...take away YOUR or you loved one's best chance for survival...against some evil-minded low-life who has NO value of right and wrong, no value of life? Doesn't make sense...

 

[thereisnospoon]

Graystar +1

I don't believe this young adult realy cares for our opinions, he has just found a place to perpetuate his myopic utopian views of a world full of love and harmony and stir up a hornets nest at the same time. I would submit that this young man is affiliated in some way with the original troller that was linked in the original post.

Hong seems to want to promote a form of kinder, gentler self-defence:

Don't shoot the bad guy, just hit him repeatedly with a 2X4?

Yes, I can see how that promotes love and good nature...

I would dare say that your view of the way 99.9% of High Roaders would handle themselves in a violent confrontation is perpetuated by Hollyweird and salty posts here about "going to slide lock". In fact, I believe most of the folks here at the High Road would avoid confrontation in the first place by either being aware of our surroundings or by Eascaping and Evading the problem, if possible or applicable.

I carry a variety of self defense measures with me so that I do not have to resort to a firearm as my first line of defense...it is my last, as you put it.

Yet, for all of our restraint, there are times when situations warrant the use of deadly force (as you have so wonderfully acknowledged).

If you can Hong, please summarize/clarify your thoughts on the following topics:

1. Use of deadly force...include what you think would qualify as a reason to usemdeadly force.

2. Military use of Force and RoE...you seem to think that Military personnel should only shoot after they have been engaged and then only at enemies that clearly present themselves. I've never been in a combat situation, but to me that sounds like a great way to get dead.

3. How do you explain the increased crime rate in both Britain and Aus after draconian gun legislation was passed

Your help clarifying this would be greatly appreciated and could go a long way towards earning you respect from High Roaders who may disagree with you, but respect you for standing up for what you believe

 

[Aguila Blanca]

1stly, How do you think half of Robbers get guns? They are given a background check, they are found to be clean, the are issued with a weapon. Technically, these people are the "Right Hands", but we all know better.

I'll assume, then, that you are using an editorial "we," since that statement certainly does not include me. I really do know better.

I cannot, of course, speak as to where robbers get their guns in Australia, but living near a major metropolitan area in the U.S. I can reliably inform you that the gang bangers do NOT pass background checks and buy their guns through legal channels. They buy them on the street corners from other gang bangers who have stolen them. I won;t get into specifics of how I know this, but I am not offering conjecture, or fantasy such as you offer. This is fact.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

hongimaster, you are so uninformed that there's really no point in discussing this any further with you. And the problem isn’t your lack of knowledge, but more your clear bias and inability to understand what we are saying. Your ignorance is encyclopedic.

Which, of course, is exactly the same as the aforementioned Vindi C, who also had no real interest in learning but was only interested in trying to convert an entire nation into forswearing it s Constitution and accepting a woefully warped view of the way things ought to be.

In fact, these arguments are becoming so painfully familiar that I begin to wonder if hongimaster isn't Vindi C posting under a new screen name.

 

[migoi]

I think some folks here...

are missing the point of Hongi"s posts. It's not that he totally anti-gun. He reads more like a 'roo version of Diane of the Left Coast. I know what's best, but the rules I lay out don't apply to me.

He's stated that he wants to and should be allowed to own firearms to protect himself ("I'm not against Guns, heck, I want one to be able to defend my house (a shotgun if you are interested)", he just doesn't want us crazy ole 'Mericans to be allowed to do so because we might be "the Wrong Hands." After reading his posts I though a goodly supply of bricks would have been more than sufficient for him to protect himself and his family.

I find it highly amusing to read a self admitted teenager from another country lecture this particular group of individuals on use of lethal force, military rules of engagement, and psychological tendencies.

I know I've read posts on here of folks who have been carrying firearms daily for longer than the 'Master has been alive. Plus we have quite a few military and former military folks, police officers, and lawyers. All of who our honored poster feels have gotten it all wrong during these many decades (perhaps centuries) of collective experience and need to be set straight.

As the ad says: priceless

migoi

 

[Andrew Rothman]

Any man, women or Juvi carrying a gun is a potential criminal.

Any man is a potential rapist, and any woman is a potential prostitute.

Anyone with hands is a potential strangler, and anyone with eyes is a potential peeping tom.

Any other "logic" you'd like to share?

 

[Brian Williams]

P.S How does us being 15 affect our maturity?

While you are so mature and intelligent please write it all down so we can have it, we forgot to do that when we where as mature and intelligent as you are.

OBTW I am in my Year of Jubilee if you are wondering.























What on Earth is a Hongi and how did you master it so young......

 

[Solo]

Any man, women or Juvi carrying a gun is a potential criminal.

Based on that sort of logic, anyone can be considered a potential criminal, so that would mean preventing anybody from acquiring knives, fertilizer, baseball bats, and etc.

 

[coyote Mak]

SONNY BOY!!! YOU ARE A TROLL AND AFTER READING THE POSTS FOR TODAY i HAVE REACHED ONE CONCLUSION, YOU ARE A TROLL!!!!
I don't even believe you are 15 or from Australia. i think you are older then that and are part of the democratic underground, so how do you like those little green apples.
or you are younger then you say you are and are as stupid as a pet rock and have no idea what the hell your talking about. your just babbling like your reading a prepared statement or worse yet, your reading it out of a book written by a left-winger who hates the world but wants to rule it.
so go away and grow up and get a life man, before that video screen eats you up.

 

[sfhogman]

Hong,

After you get a life, (and don't worry, you will) you'll find that there are two inexpensive tools out there that you'll want to get right away:

1. A thesaurus

2. A dictionary

What the hell. Go for it now!

Sincerely,
Jeff

 

[pax]

Closed, for obnoxious and disappointing behavior on the part of members who should know better.

Guys, if all you can think of to do is to insult people who don't agree with you, YOU don't belong on THR. We don't do things that way, here.

Some of you need to check your PMs.

pax