Selling Gun Via TheHighRoad (Shipping Question)

[shocktokyo]

I apologize if this has already been addressed in a previous threat(searched, found nothing), but I have had a hard time locating exact information on this subject. Basically, I am trying to sell a firearm of mine as a private sell. Some of those entertaining my offer reside outside of my state(Texas), so I am curious as to how I would ship the gun to them if I can even do that. I see all the time on the Trading Post where users will say they will ship on the buyer's dime, but does that only apply to in-state sales? I figure I would have to ship the gun(a handgun) to the buyer's FFL, but is that it on my part or would I need an FFL to send it for me? Thanks for any info. I am not expecting expert legal advice, just advice from those who have done such sales before or know of what you must do.

 

[TexasRifleman]

You will need to ship it to a FFL in their state for the actual transfer.

You can ship it directly to that FFL if they will take it. Some FFL's won't accept shipments from anyone except another FFL for whatever reason so you might have to find a dealer locally also, doubling the trouble.

Usually in that case the buyer pays the transfer charge on his end and you'd pay the transfer charge on your end (if there is one) but of course that's negotiable.

 

[shocktokyo]

Thanks a bunch, that is pretty much what I was looking for. Do you think certain states would not allow such a sale though or is it not really a "private" sale? Does the FFL I send it to have to run the background check on the buyer?

 

[CoRoMo]

Do you think certain states would not allow such a sale...

Some state laws restrict/regulate the type of firearms that come into their state. Some state laws prohibit private, face to face transactions without a background check/4473. I don't know if there is a state that prohibits their residents from buying guns from out of state sellers, but I know states like California have enough regulation in place that is is almost a prohibition. The handgun that you are currently selling might not be legal to buy/sell/possess in a number of states.

...is it not really a "private" sale?

If the buyer were in your state, it would be. If the buyer is in another state, the transaction really doesn't enjoy the freedom that a true private sale within the same state does.

Does the FFL I send it to have to run the background check on the buyer?

Yes.

 

[dogtown tom]

shocktokyo I apologize if this has already been addressed in a previous threat(searched, found nothing), but I have had a hard time locating exact information on this subject. Basically, I am trying to sell a firearm of mine as a private sell. Some of those entertaining my offer reside outside of my state(Texas), so I am curious as to how I would ship the gun to them if I can even do that. I see all the time on the Trading Post where users will say they will ship on the buyer's dime, but does that only apply to in-state sales? I figure I would have to ship the gun(a handgun) to the buyer's FFL, but is that it on my part or would I need an FFL to send it for me? Thanks for any info. I am not expecting expert legal advice, just advice from those who have done such sales before or know of what you must do.

If you sell to another resident of Texas you can ship a handgun via UPS (not FedEx or USPS) or a rifle or shotgun by UPS or USPS directly to the buyer as long as you do not have reasonable cause to believe the buyer is a prohibited person.

If you sell to an out of state buyer you must ship only to a licensed dealer (FFL). As a nonlicensee you can ship a rifle or shotgun through the USPS, UPS or FedEx. Be aware that UPS and FedEx have their own policies that limit how and where you can ship your package. Be aware that some dealers refuse to receive a shipment from a nonlicensee.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Do you think certain states would not allow such a sale though or is it not really a "private" sale?

It's not really considered a private transaction when going through an FFL.* I don't know of any states that won't allow an FFL to take in a firearm for transfer from a private individual.

That FFL is responsible for meeting all state and Federal laws regarding transfers; background checks, waiting periods etc.

*NavyLT posted an interesting theory on sales across state lines but I'm not going to touch it with a ten foot pole. He makes a valid point though.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7053728&postcount=11

 

[shocktokyo]

Awesome, thanks a lot.

 

[NavyLCDR]

*NavyLT posted an interesting theory on sales across state lines but I'm not going to touch it with a ten foot pole. He makes a valid point though.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost....8&postcount=11

Nope.... not valid anymore! The word "transferor" later on in the sentence solves my question...

(a) It shall be unlawful—
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides

When I ship the gun to the FFL, I am not the transferor, the FFL is. I am merely the seller.

 

[TexasRifleman]

OK good. I figured it was something like that, I was almost afraid to think of the alternative.

 

[Quoheleth]

So, to be clear, seller =/= transferor.

If I am in Texas and selling to Joe in Montana, I can send it to Joe's FFL holder (because I am the seller) and his FFL holder is the transferor (paperwork handler).

That's legal?

But if Joe's FFL holder was right across the state line in Wyoming and doing Joe a favor by cutting him a break, that would present a problem. But to whom - the transferor or me or both?

Q

 

[shocktokyo]

THAT is a good question. Would be nice if all states had reciprocating gun laws regarding this, just without non-"free" states like California and New Jersey running things, just forced to obey orders of awesome gun laws, teehee.

 

[CoRoMo]

So, to be clear, seller =/= transferor.

Sometimes yes; if you are doing a FTF transaction, you believe the buyer is not prohibited, you are the transferor and the seller. The seller isn't ALWAYS the transferor, but in same-state private transactions, they are the same. Also, when you go into a gun shop and buy a gun, the dealer is both the seller and transferor and it is obviously not a private transaction.

That's legal?

The scenario you described is, yes.

...Joe's FFL holder was right across the state line in Wyoming and doing Joe a favor...

That one appears to be fraught with violations of law, but only at first glance. In the first place, you would want a copy of the FFL before you shipped the gun out. If you received a Wyoming addressed license, that should raise a red flag, but then again, maybe Joe has residency in Wyoming too. You are not burdened with verifying his residency status, the transferor is, so it would then just be up to you whether or not you want to ship the gun to Wyoming, or start asking everyone questions about Joe's address in Montana.

I don't want to confuse the OP with this, but that's that.

 

[NavyLCDR]

But if Joe's FFL holder was right across the state line in Wyoming and doing Joe a favor by cutting him a break, that would present a problem. But to whom - the transferor or me or both?

It would only be a problem for the person who shipped the gun to the FFL if it could be proven that the shipper/seller had conspired with Joe in Montana or the FFL in Wyoming to commit an unlawful transfer.

For example, Joe in Montana is prohibited in some way. He has an FFL buddy in Wyoming that will fake the paperwork for Joe. Joe tells you, "The gun has to go to XYZ gun shop because no other FFL will transfer it to me." That's reasonable cause to believe there is a crime afoot.

Other than that - shipping a gun to an FFL in any state is legal.

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

Gunbroker has a great page that pretty much explains all the intricacies of what you can and cannot do:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Support/SupportFAQView.aspx?faqid=1118

 

[Hanzerik]

Not too far off topic, but a good thing to do when placing a gun up for sell on a forum is to be very specific on how/who pays for shipping. I always have requested a USPS Money Order if shipped, or cash if a local deal.

Lets say I have a gun I want to sell.
A local face to face sell will be cheaper due to not having to ship or do any paperwork. I'll post my general local in the state say Cheyenne, but will also give a radius I'm willing to meet/drive to to make the deal. For me that would be something like Pine Bluffs, Laramie, Wheatland/Chugwater.

Or if I'm going to ship I'll tack on a few bucks, for me that is usually $25-$50 depending on how I feel about the gun. Usually about $35 tacked on to the price.

The subject of who pays for shipping can make or break a deal, and can come to arguments and negative comments made by both sides if there are misunderstandings on how the process is going to be handled.


As far as I know you can do out of state sales as long as you are willing to physically take the gun to an FFL in the buyers state and do a semi FTF sale. Gun will be transfered/put on the FFL's books, then the buyer will do the paperwork while your right there. This could be a good option for folks like those of us in Cheyenne who have a buyer in someplace like Fort Collins.