Semi .308s

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Wasz

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I've just started researching these and I need a jumping off point. I know little to nothing as of right now. What I'm looking for is a general run down on what the options are. AR 10, FAL, M1A, and whatever else I don't know about. Id like to know what accuracy is out around 500 yards, how reliable the platform is , what the cost is, how many rounds the mags will hold etc...

The searches I tried didn't really turn up what I was looking for, but maybe I missed a magic phrase. Thanks for the help.
 
The correct answer: Get one of each when you can, but some tend to pick one and watch it multiply :cool:

I went with the M14 platform. I did try the AR-10 along the way and sold it in favor of another M14.
I have not tried the FAL.

W.E.G. ~ M1A is ... a pain (at least in the wallet) to mount a scope.
easy on the eyes
Click to expand...

W.E.G. nailed it. The M14 platform is best suited to iron sights when a standard USGI stock is used.
If you must have a traditional scope look no further than the only M14 stock dedicated to OPTICS.

Here is one of my M14SE CRAZY HORSE® LITE SDMs in a LAW483 M14 MCS stock.
It may look like hell to some, but it works like a charm.

M14 reliability and accuracy with AR-10 like flat top ergonomics for traditional and non-traditional optics.

SEICHLITE-4XFTS-XR308-MCS.jpg
 
I don't disagree with the above assessments.

From my own perspectives-- and this is from limited experience-- here's my take:

I've owned the following in the semi-auto .308 world:

HK-91 Wide Forearm (original):

- Accurate as I needed it to do. Killed deer at well over 200 yards with 4X fixed optics. Stupid heavy. Demolished brass-- but don't worry-- it throws them about 35 feet North-Northeast of your position and you will never find them anyway. Only sold the rifle because I was offered an obscene amount of money for it in 1992. (Is $3,000 obsence in 1992 dollars? I paid $600.00 for it in 1988.)

Century R1A1 (Century FAL):

-- Problem child. Mine had an "Inch" receiver. It would NOT feed reliable with Metric Magazines but did well with Inch ones (go figure.) Problem was that Inch magazines were a lot more expensive. I did not like how the charging handle wore the finish on the left side of the receiver-- even after Duracoating it. Mine had a "unibrow" feed ramp and was not as reliable as many out there. I didn't have it long enough to get it tweaked as I'd like.

Saiga 308:

Insanely reliable rifle. I can say that I never had a failure to feed or extract. It was very accurate for the platform that we are working with. I've killed deer with it at 175 yards using a 8X PSOP scope. I could hold 1.5 MOA groups from a rest and using optics using quality ammunition. The barrel would start to heat after about 6-7 rounds and I would start seeing some stringing. This one was professionally converted to the traditional format. I sold it to fund another project.


DPMS LR-308 24" SS fluted barrel:

I'll let you know tomorrow. :)


-- John
 
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A tuned AR-10 type rifle will beat everything else in the accuracy department. I've heard the DPMS can be a little picky. Both my AR-10s rand great and were easily sub MOA. My first AR-10 type rifle was an early SR-25. Too expensive and extremely poor customer service.

I've played with FALs, but could never get one to shoot well. This after trigger mods and custom barrels. I love the rifle, but it is not a sub MOA shooter by any stretch of the imagination. You will not see one at a LR tactical match.

HK? Ergonomics doesn't enter into the equation. Ejection is violent, trigger is the worst, accuracy is passable.

I am currently running an M1a. Fully tricked out you can get one to shoot well, but not up with an AR-10. The AR platform is intrinsically more precise, which is why ARs rule service rifle.

The M1a is rugged and reliable, and has a certain cachet that the others lack. I just like the way it feels.

YMMV
 
I've had the Saiga 308 and the R1A1, plus a DSA SA58, or at least a rifle that was built on a DSA receiver. I'm not sure which. Of the three, I've been most happy with the Saiga. Accuracy is mediocre. I can get 1.5-2 MOA out if it provided I do everything just so, (handloads, cool barrel, rest), but most of the time it's a 3 MOA rifle, (factory ammo, warmer barrel, rested on blocks). Reliability is perfect. I've fired about 600 rounds through it so far and I've never had a jam. Price is excellent, but the mags aren't cheap at all. With an Ace folder on it, it's extremely compact and optics and accessories aren't much of a problem. Fit and finish are pretty good. You won't mistake it for a Browning but for a cheap AK it's impressive. The original stock is very cheesy however.

My R1A1 delivered similar accuracy, (maybe a little bit worse, but not much), with better ergonomics and scope mounting options. Fit and finish weren't as good though. Mags were dirt cheap and I never had a problem with them. I did have to open the gas valve all the way for it to cycle with SA surplus and it did jam on me a few times, but on the whole I would say it was reliable. I think it had a 22" barrel on it and between that and the fixed NATO length stock it was one BIG rifle. I paid $600 for it, so it cost me about the same as the converted Saiga, but with cheaper mags.

The DSA was the most disappointing rifle I have owned. I bought it used, but it was in perfect condition. Everything looked immaculate, the fit and finish were excellent, the charging handle was smooth as butter, and it didn't shoot worth s--t. It had a thin fluted barrel on it and as it heated up the shots would get higher and higher. If you fired 10 shots you would get a group 8 inches high and 1" wide. I tried loading the shells one by one, different cartridges and asked for advice over on the FAL files, but I couldn't get it to shoot, so I unloaded it after less than a month and used the money to buy a Remington LTR and optics.

Now I've read enough to realize that my experience with DSA is atypical and that the rifle may not have even been built by them, (their receivers all say SA58), so I would be willing to try another.
 
search up MBR for the whole shooting match. From your post I think you're leaning that way and not talking about commercial hunting rifles.
 
Semi

From my limited experience with long guns I can honestly say that the HK G3 is easy to shoot and quite accurate. When I did draft time I could quite regularly shoot head shot out to 300 meters (Prone, using sandbags)...and I was a TOTAL newbie to shooting then and we really werent taught shooting...just sort of "Dont hurt yourself or someone else".
Reliabilty: Dragged it through some puddles and it never failed, but no real dirt testing. Price for originals seems to be in the "absurd" category, but there are lots of firms building copies.
MKE (Turkish subcontractor for HK, producing to the HK-standards!) offers them over here /Germany) for I think 800€ (~1200$)basic, upgrades models up to 1400€ (~2000$).

Carsten
 
AR10--best ergonomics, not an issued battle rifle, some unreliability (usually related to magazines). most accurate

M14/M1A--best iron sights (truly amazing iron sights), great ergo's with irons, not so with optics (unless you change the stock as noted above). Kali legal (only one), magazines are currently cheap and new and well worth stocking up on. 2nd most accurate. 2nd best ergo's

FAL--most reliable. Free world's right arm. typical military trigger (read creepy and growly). Odd place for the charging handle (personal opinion). magazines are very cheap right now and there are tons. hard to mount a scope on. sights are average at best. Do not buy a Century version, IMBEL's are fine, DSA's are fine.

G3--beats the living hell out of you in recoil. destroys brass. average sights, expensive. reliable as hell though terrible trigger, not good ergo's.

CETME--POS
 
If you want to spend some ching, you could look for an HK 770 or SL7. Beats up brass, "interesting" to develop loads for, and cost a whole lot more now than when they were new :)

27703770.jpg
 
choice

I have owned seven M1As, down to one currently.
Many years and many shots fired. Zero malfunctions. Not one. Hand loads, surplus or commercial, not one malfunction.

I have three AR-10s. Many rounds, one mag related malfunction.

NIB, DSA Congo. 250 rounds and many malfunctions, still not sure if it will go through a mag without a hiccup. Yes, the gas system is properly set.

The AR 10 is most accurate. From a well bagged rest 20 rounds in one hole about the size of a quarter.
 
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FAL- I have many. All my EAI factory built fals run perfectly. My DSA runs well and looks hot but was totally not worth the money since it didn't shoot any better than my EAI FALs but cost twice as much. That said dont expect accuracy any better than 3-6" at 100 yards. These are battle rifles. Mine are fixed magazaine models (using the original FN49 loading system)

M1A - real nice in accuracy. real nice in looks. 2-3" @ 100. the mount cost me $160. my next mount for it which will be trijicon will cost me about $450. =(

AR10 - dont have one but ar15s in general are tackdrivers. i expect this one to win out.

G3 - what a crappy trigger. bizarre how a trigger like this is found on such an expensive gun. oh, and i hate the cocking system as well as the delayed system.

G36 - i'm just throwing this in there because i got to handle it recently. yup that crappy trigger is still there.
 
IronSightRot671

H20, Drool,lust ,moan! nice 308

I'm DT! hint,hint.. lol.
Click to expand...

Welcome back DT! That's my most recent build from Smith Enterprise, Inc.


All of my shooters have military M118LR chambers that allow me to shoot just about any 7.62mm x 51 or .308 ammo :cool:
 
M1A: Mine is very accurate, reliable, great rifle. Wouldn't part with it.

AR-10: Those that I own are a close second in accuracy to my M1A (by the way, the M1A I have is set up for highpower rifle competition). Reliable, easy to care for, I love them. My sons and I use them for hunting deer during firearms season.

FAL: Lots of fun, be prepared to tinker. Mine do not have very good accuracy but they are a ball to play with.
 
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