Holden
Member
What are some alternatives to the Browning BAR? Why are bolt action rifles considered more accurate than semis? What is the diffence between centerfire and rimfire? Thanks in advance.
Semi Auto Rifles - General Question
- Thread starter Holden
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benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
In a centerfire cartridge, the priming (impact-sensitive compound such as lead styphnate) is contained in a small cup in the center of the cartridge's base. In a rimfire cartridge, the case has an enlarged rim that holds the priming compound. Centerfire cartridges are capable of containing much higher pressures, but rimfires are cheaper to manufacture. (If you look closely at the breech face of a rimfire firearm, you will notice the firing pin is set up to strike the rim of the cartridge instead of the center.)
As far as accuracy, bolt-action rifles are theoretically easier to manufacture with very tight tolerances and still work reliably, and any movements in the action before the bullet leaves the barrel can theoretically disturb the point of impact slightly. However, some semiauto designs (e.g., the AR-15 series) are capable of accuracy equalling the best bolt guns.
As far as alternatives to the BAR, are you looking for a conventional-looking rifle (e.g., slim action, flush magazine, Monte Carlo stock) or just any major-caliber self-loader regardless of what they look like?
As far as accuracy, bolt-action rifles are theoretically easier to manufacture with very tight tolerances and still work reliably, and any movements in the action before the bullet leaves the barrel can theoretically disturb the point of impact slightly. However, some semiauto designs (e.g., the AR-15 series) are capable of accuracy equalling the best bolt guns.
As far as alternatives to the BAR, are you looking for a conventional-looking rifle (e.g., slim action, flush magazine, Monte Carlo stock) or just any major-caliber self-loader regardless of what they look like?
Holden
Member
Thanks for the primer...very thorough and exactly what I was looking for. As for the rifles looks - more traditional/conventional. Spent eight years in the Corps (had enough of the tactical style) and am just beginning to try to build a little collection (bought the Benelli SBE wood and a Tikka T3 300wsm a little over a month ago). Now I'm itching for another rifle and another shotgun. Just wanting to be as informed as possible before going out hopefully before christmas.
tcdrennen
Member
The 7.62x51 M14 was intended to be a replacement for the .30-'06 BAR (and M1 Garand), and is about 10 lbs. lighter. The .308 (7.62x51) Springfield Armory M1A is a semiauto recreation of the M14 and with the wood stocks is very traditional, and capable of sub-MOA performance with appropriate tuning - mine shoots 'way better than I do 
YMMV
YMMV
May I suggest 22 Rimfire rifle
You may want to take a look at a good 22lr rimfire for a next gift to yourself.
I did not buy one until lately and it is a lot of fun. Here's a list of my suggestion:
a) Ruger 10/22 - inexpensive, US-made semiauto, tons of stuff to tinker with - Beware, it can be a money pit, and habit forming... start about $150-$200. I know a couple of folks who has more than $700 into a 10/22.
b) CZ 452 - any model - accurate, bolt action, inexpensive, very good value, start about $190 - $400
c) Martini - single shot - very accurate, no longer made, but available $400 and up
d) Kimber - accurate, well made US bolt action, $800
e) Cooper - very accurate, very well made US bolt action, $1000+
You may want to take a look at a good 22lr rimfire for a next gift to yourself.
I did not buy one until lately and it is a lot of fun. Here's a list of my suggestion:
a) Ruger 10/22 - inexpensive, US-made semiauto, tons of stuff to tinker with - Beware, it can be a money pit, and habit forming...
start about $150-$200. I know a couple of folks who has more than $700 into a 10/22.b) CZ 452 - any model - accurate, bolt action, inexpensive, very good value, start about $190 - $400
c) Martini - single shot - very accurate, no longer made, but available $400 and up
d) Kimber - accurate, well made US bolt action, $800
e) Cooper - very accurate, very well made US bolt action, $1000+
Holden
Member
I failed to mention that I do have a Browning 22 mag semi. that was given to me as a boy. That gun IS alot of fun. Looking in the .243 range and thought about a semi, but I have really liked the Tikka and may consider another bolt-action.
The Remington 7400 is a semi-auto alternative to the BAR. It has the design of a hunting rifle.
Another reason semi's "tend" to be more inaccurate than boltguns is that the barrel typically has a gas port/gas block attached to it. Tends to alter barrel harmonics in inconsistentways and eliminate "free floating" benefits.
Another reason semi's "tend" to be more inaccurate than boltguns is that the barrel typically has a gas port/gas block attached to it. Tends to alter barrel harmonics in inconsistentways and eliminate "free floating" benefits.
I'm admitedly biased but I'd recommend an M1 Garand. Adding a new barrel in .243 isn't that expensive if you're dead set on that cartridge.
But with a little tuning by a gunsmith who knows what he's doing a Garand will be as accurate as you ever need it to be. Plus I'd imagine recoil in a .243 chambered Garand would be minimal, which will help you shoot better.
But with a little tuning by a gunsmith who knows what he's doing a Garand will be as accurate as you ever need it to be. Plus I'd imagine recoil in a .243 chambered Garand would be minimal, which will help you shoot better.
MuzzleBlast
Member
Do you know of anyone that makes Garand barrels in .243?
Sunray
Member
Um, no offense but what did they teach you in "the Corps"? If you don't know the difference between rimfire and centrefire, you need to start with a basic firearms book/course. Then worry about a small collection.
"...the tactical style..." There is no such thing as this. The term 'tactical' is purely a marketing term used to sell more rifles exactly alike to people who don't know the difference. IE. Savage's "tactical" rifles are just their basic hunting rifle with a different finish. Remington's too. Anything else is a civilian version of a military rifle. There's no such thing as a 'tactical' flashlight, knife, dinner plate, underwear or anything else either.
Putting a .243 barrel on would be simple, yes, If you can find one. SA used to sell M1A'sin .243, but I don't think they ever did them in .243. That'd mean a custom made barrel. Cost you as much if not more than another rifle.
"...the tactical style..." There is no such thing as this. The term 'tactical' is purely a marketing term used to sell more rifles exactly alike to people who don't know the difference. IE. Savage's "tactical" rifles are just their basic hunting rifle with a different finish. Remington's too. Anything else is a civilian version of a military rifle. There's no such thing as a 'tactical' flashlight, knife, dinner plate, underwear or anything else either.
Putting a .243 barrel on would be simple, yes, If you can find one. SA used to sell M1A'sin .243, but I don't think they ever did them in .243. That'd mean a custom made barrel. Cost you as much if not more than another rifle.
ChairborneRanger
Member
What he (Sunray) said!
Swampy
Member
Guys,
Roland Beaver, a very well respected M1 'smith in Bald Knob AR, makes custom M1 barrels from Obermeyer blanks. He will turn one in any caliber using the same basic case head diameter as the 30-06.
Only problem is the time involved..... He runs about 6 months to 18 months in arears on M1 jobs and the clock don't start ticking until he has your rifle in his vault. Rolands work is in high demand. Good stuff.
Best of luck in your decision,
Swampy
Garands forever
Roland Beaver, a very well respected M1 'smith in Bald Knob AR, makes custom M1 barrels from Obermeyer blanks. He will turn one in any caliber using the same basic case head diameter as the 30-06.
Only problem is the time involved..... He runs about 6 months to 18 months in arears on M1 jobs and the clock don't start ticking until he has your rifle in his vault. Rolands work is in high demand. Good stuff.
Best of luck in your decision,
Swampy
Garands forever
Holden
Member
Sunray,
Wow. The "elitist" position is a bit old. Came on here for info, but the lecture on semantics was constructive. And over the word tactical no less. Anyway, I think I'll learn as I go and hope for less critical replies in the future. Thanks for contributing.
Wow. The "elitist" position is a bit old. Came on here for info, but the lecture on semantics was constructive. And over the word tactical no less.
Anyway, I think I'll learn as I go and hope for less critical replies in the future. Thanks for contributing.Take this for what it is worth
When I was a kid, I used to hang out at the local gun club. We had a retired guy that used to spend most of his days at the club doing work: dragging roads, clearing brush, planting trees........................... And I used to help him.
He was an old time Marine. He had not only been a Marine in the 1930s, but had been a member of the Marine Corps. Rifle Team. Of course he used the '03 Springfield at the time. One day I asked him if he owned an '03. I figured since he had spent so much time with one and knew it like the back of his hand, he would own one if nothing else for nostalgia. He said, no, he couldn't afford to own more than one rifle and the rifle he owned was far more accurate than the '03. I asked what it was ? He pulled it out of a case from the back of his car: a Browning BAR in .30-06. He then opened his wallet and showed me a group shot with it: it was basically one hole. He said that someone else had fired the group because he couldn't see that well anymore but he carried it to show what the rifle could do.
When I was a kid, I used to hang out at the local gun club. We had a retired guy that used to spend most of his days at the club doing work: dragging roads, clearing brush, planting trees........................... And I used to help him.
He was an old time Marine. He had not only been a Marine in the 1930s, but had been a member of the Marine Corps. Rifle Team. Of course he used the '03 Springfield at the time. One day I asked him if he owned an '03. I figured since he had spent so much time with one and knew it like the back of his hand, he would own one if nothing else for nostalgia. He said, no, he couldn't afford to own more than one rifle and the rifle he owned was far more accurate than the '03. I asked what it was ? He pulled it out of a case from the back of his car: a Browning BAR in .30-06. He then opened his wallet and showed me a group shot with it: it was basically one hole. He said that someone else had fired the group because he couldn't see that well anymore but he carried it to show what the rifle could do.
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