eurohacker
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Are civilian versions of guns such as the MP5, Uzi, HK UMP, MAC-10 etc being made? That would be pretty cool, it would be like a carbine almost.
Semi-auto versions of popular SMG's?
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Chris Rhines
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Not as common as semi-auto versions of battle rifles, because most SMGs have barrels shorter than 16 inches (which makes them Short-Barreled Rifles, subject to all the usual NFA hassle and expense.)
There are semi-auto, no-stock MAC clones around - these are considered pistols. The old TEC-9 was a semi-only copy of the Interdynamics KG-9 submachine gun. Semi-auto Uzis can be had, with 16" barrels. Same with the MP-5, there are long barrel MP-5 clones floating around.
Not really my thing, but the manufacturers seem to have no trouble selling them...
- Chris
There are semi-auto, no-stock MAC clones around - these are considered pistols. The old TEC-9 was a semi-only copy of the Interdynamics KG-9 submachine gun. Semi-auto Uzis can be had, with 16" barrels. Same with the MP-5, there are long barrel MP-5 clones floating around.
Not really my thing, but the manufacturers seem to have no trouble selling them...
- Chris
threeseven
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22.99 posts per day is a pretty good effort there, buddy.
eurohacker
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Tell me about these MP5 clones...
threeseven: it's called "prolific writer", buddy
threeseven: it's called "prolific writer", buddy
Chris Rhines
Member
I thought it was called, "obsessive gun freak, all the more so for not being able to own actual guns."
Here, how 'bout you tell yourself about them (honestly, I don't know much about HK-pattern weapons, other than that for me, they tend to be ergonomic disaster areas.)
http://www.hkweaponsystems.com/clones/clone.html
http://www.bobcatweapons.com
http://www.top-notchparts.com (These guys have a really bad reputation, both for quality and for business practices. Fair warning.)
http://www.vectorarms.com/guns/hk_rifles.htm (Had one of these in the shop. Nicely built, but no fun at all to shoot.)
- Chris
Here, how 'bout you tell yourself about them (honestly, I don't know much about HK-pattern weapons, other than that for me, they tend to be ergonomic disaster areas.)
http://www.hkweaponsystems.com/clones/clone.html
http://www.bobcatweapons.com
http://www.top-notchparts.com (These guys have a really bad reputation, both for quality and for business practices. Fair warning.)
http://www.vectorarms.com/guns/hk_rifles.htm (Had one of these in the shop. Nicely built, but no fun at all to shoot.)
- Chris
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
You can still buy civilian Uzi lookalikes, which IIRC were made by a few companies prior to the '94 ban (Vector Arms was one, I think). Unlike the real Uzi, which originally fired from an open bolt, the civilian lookalikes fire from a closed bolt. In other words, in the original Uzi, the bolt is held back by the firing mechanism until you pull the trigger, which lets the bolt fly forward, strip a round from the magazine, chamber the round, and fire it. Civilian lookalikes don't hold the bolt back; when you pull the bolt back and let it go, the bolt flies forward to chamber a round but does not fire it; pulling the trigger then releases an internal hammer or striker to fire the gun. They had to do that because guns that fire from an open bolt are relatively easy to convert to full-auto, so the National Firearms Act treats them as restricted Title 2 machine guns (even if not actually converted).
Civilian Uzi lookalikes were available in two basic configurations, a short-barrelled model that was legally considered a pistol and had no stock (pistols with stocks are controlled by the NFA), and a 16" barrel model that was legally considered a rifle and could have a shoulder stock. I have seen models with an authentic-looking collapsible or folding stock like a real Uzi, and I've seen models with fixed wooden stocks.
The only way to get a realistic-looking Uzi lookalike (with stock AND short barrel) would be to buy the carbine version, go through the extensive paperwork to register it as a "short-barreled rifle" under the NFA, and then have the barrel shortened to the correct length.
Civilian subgun lookalikes are nowhere near as popular as AR-15's and civilian AK lookalikes, possibly because an Uzi lookalike is incredibly heavy and bulky for a 9mm. My wife's Glock 26 fires the same ammunition at the same rate of fire as a civilian Uzi lookalike, and measures less than 13cm x 8.5cm. IMHO, bulky pistol-caliber carbines just aren't very size-efficient. (They are cool-looking, though.)
Civilian Uzi lookalikes were available in two basic configurations, a short-barrelled model that was legally considered a pistol and had no stock (pistols with stocks are controlled by the NFA), and a 16" barrel model that was legally considered a rifle and could have a shoulder stock. I have seen models with an authentic-looking collapsible or folding stock like a real Uzi, and I've seen models with fixed wooden stocks.
The only way to get a realistic-looking Uzi lookalike (with stock AND short barrel) would be to buy the carbine version, go through the extensive paperwork to register it as a "short-barreled rifle" under the NFA, and then have the barrel shortened to the correct length.
Civilian subgun lookalikes are nowhere near as popular as AR-15's and civilian AK lookalikes, possibly because an Uzi lookalike is incredibly heavy and bulky for a 9mm. My wife's Glock 26 fires the same ammunition at the same rate of fire as a civilian Uzi lookalike, and measures less than 13cm x 8.5cm. IMHO, bulky pistol-caliber carbines just aren't very size-efficient. (They are cool-looking, though.)
eurohacker
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benEzra: dude, I thought the AWB expired last year?
BryanP
Member
eurohacker,
The awb had nothing to do with the NFA laws. The awb expiring means the following:
We can now buy new magazines with >10 round capacity.
There are no rules saying you can't have a pistol grip, detachable magazine, bayonet lug and glash suppressor on the same rifle.
That's about it.
Anything covered by other laws is still verboten, or at least difficult / expensive. Short barrelled rifles & shotguns and select-fire capability are covered by the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934 and Firearms Owners Protection Act (FOPA) of 1986, both of which are still in effect.
The awb had nothing to do with the NFA laws. The awb expiring means the following:
We can now buy new magazines with >10 round capacity.
There are no rules saying you can't have a pistol grip, detachable magazine, bayonet lug and glash suppressor on the same rifle.
That's about it.
Anything covered by other laws is still verboten, or at least difficult / expensive. Short barrelled rifles & shotguns and select-fire capability are covered by the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934 and Firearms Owners Protection Act (FOPA) of 1986, both of which are still in effect.
eurohacker
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BryanP: yes I know the difference between NFA and AWB, but he said '94 ban, not '34...
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Vector Arms and others made civilian Uzi lookalikes under license from Israeli Military Industries, IIRC, prior to 1994. Importation of actual IMI Uzi lookalikes was halted by Bush the Elder's import ban, but as I recall, licensed production by American manufacturerers continued until the Clinton admin pressured IMI to bring that to a halt. I think.
Uzi lookalikes were never all that popular to start with, and after 1994 the market in AR-15's and AK lookalikes greatly accelerated, and the market for civilian Uzi's stagnated. Perhaps because the AWB made preban Uzi's collector's items and drove up prices, or whatever? But for whatever reason, no one seemed to make any civilian Uzi lookalikes after the early '90's.
The NFA is what kept manufacturers from making a short-barreled civilian Uzi lookalike with a stock, though.
Uzi lookalikes were never all that popular to start with, and after 1994 the market in AR-15's and AK lookalikes greatly accelerated, and the market for civilian Uzi's stagnated. Perhaps because the AWB made preban Uzi's collector's items and drove up prices, or whatever? But for whatever reason, no one seemed to make any civilian Uzi lookalikes after the early '90's.
The NFA is what kept manufacturers from making a short-barreled civilian Uzi lookalike with a stock, though.
armoredman
Member
SOG has a SW MK76 9mm clone with 16" tube at $400 or so. The Special Weapons HK clones are junk. Not one of the three I tried worked worth a tinkers damn.
dogngun
Member
A few weeks ago, I looked over some semi auto MAC variations. They ranged from not so good to very bad. They look mean, but they must be registered as pistols, cannot have a folding stock or a short barrel, cannot use a carry strap, and mostly don't work well. $400 and up.
I can think of better things to get for the money.
My 02 only.
Mark
You can buy 30 round mags for BHP's and 1911's and have the same thing but with a reliable gun.
I can think of better things to get for the money.
My 02 only.
Mark
You can buy 30 round mags for BHP's and 1911's and have the same thing but with a reliable gun.
Fenris Wolf
Member
You can also buy MP5 clones in Europe.
www.waffentechnik.de (in German)
Oberlandarms OA-5 (German)
www.brugger-thomet.ch (English)
All semi MP5 clones are made by MKE in Turkey because Heckler & Koch doesn't sell to civilians.
Fenris
I assure you, the mods are paying attention.
For the most part civilian versions of sub guns just don't 'look right' with the 16 inch (to be legal and unregistered) barrel... that's true of Uzis, Mac-10s, Tommy Guns, Grease Runs, Swedish K's and MP-5s. However many MP-5 clones come with a factory 'dummy supressor' shroud, which has a cool look.
Utility wise, they leave a lot to be desired.
For the most part civilian versions of sub guns just don't 'look right' with the 16 inch (to be legal and unregistered) barrel... that's true of Uzis, Mac-10s, Tommy Guns, Grease Runs, Swedish K's and MP-5s. However many MP-5 clones come with a factory 'dummy supressor' shroud, which has a cool look.
Utility wise, they leave a lot to be desired.
rbernie
Contributing Member
What would an Uzi with a 16" barrel lack that, say, a '92/'94 levergun in 38Special might have?
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